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- Report: The Fall of Anne Boleyn
- Report: The Other Boleyn Girl – Fiction versus Fact
- Report: Anne Boleyn’s Love-life
- Book list: Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII Books
- and Anne Boleyn Primary Source List
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Hello Claire.
I’ve just got back onto Broadband after a gap of nearly a week and I spotted your report, which I have now read.
I accept that Cromwell orchestrated the plot against Anne. In fact there is ample evidence to support this: namely his own boasts to Chapuys that he did so. But I can’t agree that that means it is ‘widely acknowledged’ that he was responsible for the downfall of Anne rather than Henry. I know Weir argues this, but I would be interested to know what you believe, because Ives certainly doesn’t hold Henry as being completely blameless.
Hi Louise,
I really must update that report as I actually wrote it a year ago so my views have kind of changed and moved on as I’ve read and researched more. Yes, Weir does count Henry as an innocent victim but I can’t see that myself as I don’t think Cromwell would dare move against Anne without Henry’s say-so, he’d be risking his life in moving against the Queen in that way.
I agree
Brian. I certainly agree that Cromwell would not make any move against Anne without Henry.s say so
I agree. Henry was a very hands on king at that point. Cromwell would have never made such a move without Henry giving him good reason to believe that it was welcome.
Thank you very much for the free report Claire.
I’m sure I will enjoy reading it!
Hi Berta,
I hope you enjoy it too! Thanks! x
I enjoy reading everything Anne! It was a real tragedy. Always trying to hopefully find the truth, and thats hard when eveyone has their own take on it. A cruel world it was, well, still is.
Claire,
When we were all talking the other day about the fiction vs historical novels, I was in the middle of one you’d probably get a kick out of. It’s titled “Portrait of an Unknown Woman” by Vanora Bennett, and really takes off on a fictional account of the More household!
My maternal side points to possibly decending from Mary Carey. So this is my question. If we are, then would my sons DNA show relation to Henry the 8th if Mary Boleyns son really was his and maybe not William Careys. Does anyone know?
I too am wondering this very question. My great grandmother (Alice Maria CAREY) came out to Australia in 1874 with her parents (Charles William Carey b1844 and Ann Harlow b 1843). Charles descended from Henry Carey b 1617 and Isabel Carey b 1618. The family story was handed down 6 generations that Mary Boleyn and Henry VIII were the parents of Henry and Katherine, Mary’s first 2 children. There must be thousands of us descendants who could put this to the test by DNA testing. Thank you AMR for bring this subject up.
The report was really good. Cromwell wasn’t a nice man and there is no evidence that Anne did anything wrong. She was a good girl, She would obey the King’s orders whenever, Even when he would put her to death.
Anne was not a nice girl Mary was held been better marrying her with a son and a daughter
Right, but Anne didn’t deserve to die.
I have just read the free report that is issued when you subscribe to the Anne Boleyn Files, and I have to say that it is truly excellent. I have never read anything before that so truly echoes my sentiments about this part of history. It was a pleasure and a joy to read this report; it was really well paced and well written. Thank you for producing such an excellent and informative report.
The only important thing that I believe separate from the report is that Henry was not blameless in the fall of Anne Boleyn. However, I do believe that it was most cunningly orchestrated by Cromwell, and the result was the eradication of the key members of the Boleyn Faction.
The Tudors, the Tudors, I love the Tudors but am a little upset. Why doesn’t someone make a movie or mini series about the Tudors starting with Henry the VII? After all he did start the Tudor line, right? I would really love to see a mini series about the Tudors beginning with Henry the VII on through to Elizabeth I, then it could be called The Tudors!
Thank you so very, very much, Claire! I can’t wait! You are such a wonder, and I am sure that it will be more than well worth the wait! Thank you, again! WilesWales
I to am a Wiles WilesWales
I don,t know if any one knows that sir Henry’s grandson or great grandson was the first
of his line to be born in the americas by way of MARY NORRIS ALLERTON although he
died in the harbour at plymouth mass.in 1620. Mary herself died in 1621 from the hard-
ships of the time. Fully half of those who landed in 1620 died the firs winter.
I tried to sign up to recieve the report and the book list and I’m not getting anything in my email. I tried once about a week ago and again this morning. I checked my junk folder nothing there either. It it available on the site anywhere?
On the first page of this report you write: “Henry VIII married Anne Boleyn for love, not diplomacy, the only English monarch
to marry for this reason.” but this isn’t true. His grandfather on his mother’s side, King Edward, married his grandmother, Elizabeth, for love, and she was an English commoner just like Anne.
There were basically two reasons for him marrying Anne ,,,one for love ( or desire?) two to beget a son and heir……Queen Catherine appeared to be unable the have a son..
I’m a Filipino and i’m always fascinated with Bristish Monarch history, specifically with Anne Boleyn because she is the mother of Queen Elizabeth I… Just lately, my country was devastated with typhoon Haiyan.. The “theanneboleynfiles.com” helped me a lot because all my books was swept away by storm surge… This website gives me something to read about british monarch for free.. Thank you very much..
I’ve been reading the posts on this page. Here are my takes:
1) I believe Eric Ives to be THE expert on the life of Queen Anne Boleyn. Therefore, regarding the child that Queen Anne’s sister Mary had, that child is NOT King Henry VIII’s child. If it was his child, he would have acknowledged it, just as he did with his child by Bessie Blount. At no point in his reign did he do anything “special” for the child of Mary Boleyn.
2) I do believe Cromwell had a lot to do with the Queen’s death. Cromwell was powerful (he was brought to power through the Boleyns and Henry VIII), as was Cramner and others, but Cromwell did not have enough power to take on the Queen himself. Cromwell was distressed at the way politics were going in 1536. Cromwell was leaning towards the Spanish policy, not the French policy that the Queen always leaned towards. The Queen and Cromwell also did not see eye-to-eye regarding religion and the houses of the monks and nuns. Cromwell realized that the King was disappointed by the recent miscarriage of the Queen, and that the King had acknowledged Jane Seymour to be his “lady” (according to the knightly fashion, not necessarily meaning a true, physical mistress). Cromwell knew this was the time to strike, or the Queen would bring him down, as she did indeed try to do with her preacher giving a very open analogy of the Queen versus Cromwell during a church service. Cromwell dug around and found various things that in themselves were innocent – the Queen kissing her brother, the Queen talking to a male courtier, etc. But he was able to take these innocent things, “twist” them and build a case against the Queen and laid it before the King, who by that time had “fallen” into love with Jane Seymour, BUT was not prepared to just leave the Queen yet. In a document written days before the Queens’ arrest, the King refers to her as his entirely beloved Queen! The items that Cromwell submitted to the King regarding the Queen’s “behavior” tilted the playing field in Cromwell’s favor. We all know how it all ended up with the Queen’s innocent death, though I truly believe the King through she was guilty.
3) I will say Cromwell was not a “nice” man but how many people are truly “nice” all the way through, day after day? He was an excellent servant to the King, as had been Wolsey, but the King was extremely disappointed with the marriage to Anne of Cleves that Cromwell had helped to bring about, and the King was also extremely displeased with what he had learned about Cromwell’s leanings towards the “new religion” which the King thought was heresy. Therefore, it was time for Cromwell to go. No, he wasn’t a nice man, yes, he had a large part to do with the death of Queen Anne, and yes, he was a good and valuable servant to the King.
4) Henry Norris was one of the King’s “closest friends” (if we can use those terms), not Weston. Weston’s family, from what I’ve read, tried desperately to save him, but to no avail.
5) From what I’ve seen in all books, it doesn’t appear that the Queen had many female “friends”. I don’t know if you can really say that royalty have “friends” especially back in those very dangerous times. Queen Anne seems to have displayed attributes that were rarely found in females of that time, and, as such, I’m sure that many other females would have avoided any sort of close contact with her. She did have assigned ladies in waiting, etc. but those were court appointments with money to be had and prestige. That doesn’t mean that the Queen made “friends” out of these servants. So, was Queen Anne “nice”? I don’t know and no one else does, either. Her contemporaries thought she wasn’t “nice” but that’s because most of them revered Queen Katherine (as they should have; Queen Katherine was well respected and well loved) and disliked the way Queen Anne “acted” – again, she did not act like a traditional woman of that time.
Extraordinary events all stacked up in the way that Anne Boleyn was trained in foreign courts, her unusual (not-traditional “English” beauty type) of looks, her French accomplishments that really made an impact on the court, and the fact that she came upon the English court when the King had no hope of heirs. Anne Boleyn refused to be the King’s mistress because she most likely had seen what became of her sister Mary and because her reputation would be smirched, thus denying herself a good marriage, which was something very important in those days. Things all added up to make an unusual woman for her day. Yes, she was “cruel” to Princess Mary, but Princess Mary refused to acknowledge her as Queen and refused to acknowledge the fact that the King HAD made Princess Elizabeth the Princess, and Mary a bastard. I don’t believe any other queen would have acted much differently. Additionally, I believe that even if Queen Anne would have acted extremely kind to Princess Mary, Princess Mary would not have accepted it. Her mother she considered to be Queen of England, and no other.
Yes , the fact of nearly 500 years that separates us from a person gives everything we imagine that happened a mystical quality….because we wish we could ask them personally “what happened? ” and know we cant. Then with hind sight we could “advise” them Hmmmm
Cromwell was definitely to blame for Anne’s fall and should feel racked with guilt till he died. All for the sake of an heir to the throne. God bless Anne you were the only queen who stood up to henry.
Thanks for al the interesting information on Anne and Henry, I am busy reading ah historical novel “Dark Fire” by C..J. Sansom,. the name Nan Bullen was mentioned and as I had not heard that name before had to check on the internet and came across your site. So interesting, as I am in South Africa and the Royals are not part of our history.
Henry VIII believed he loved Katherine of Aragon, too. Also Catherine Howard. Wives were for one purpose: to produce a male heir. They were “goods and chattle.”
Anne and Cromwell hated each other. Cromwell would have never acted against Anne without consent from Henry VIII. Note how and where Cromwell ended up. Fist the tower, then a side trip to tower green, lastly, buried in the same chapel along with Anne Boleyn.
I wonder if Cromwell planted the idea of infidelity and witchcraft in Henry’s brain. Jane Seymour had already caught Henry’s eye.
Most don’t realize how important a male heir was for Henry.The Tutor dynasty was only in its 2nd generation.There were still blood relatives who could claim the crown. No heir: the War of the Roses/Cousins War could start all over again.
I watched The Other Boleyn Girl last night. 2008 movie. It has been a long tome since I have read about Henry and his wives and now I have an interest again.
I don’t think there’s a snowball’s chance in hell Cromwell could have orchestrated Anne’s death without Henry’s go ahead. Who really knows? Cromwell had ruthless ambition, as did Anne, which unfortunately conspired against them both. I don’t think a woman had any choice if an important man favored one’s attentions. The fact that Anne could delay and play a King like Harry..well she must have been a match for him, and then some!
On further reading I think Cromwell played a key roll in the death of Anne. She had the kings ear and he was afraid that the feelings Anne and the dislike she had for him. It could have been goodbye to Mr Cromwell. So the good lady had to go. When the king mentioned he wished to be rid of his wife Cromwell saw his chance to remove the one who could bring him down.at that time.