Should Henry VIII be Exhumed and Would it Provide the Answer to his Tyranny?

I’m on the fence about this one. Part of me wants to know why he seemed to change so drastically (one of the theories I’ve heard it bandied around is that he had Syphilis) although like you said, perhaps he was always that way. At least we would have an answer. Another part has tremendous respect for resting places (not to mention the Chapel) and doesn’t want them disturbed at all. Is it really so important to our lives that we MUST know the answer to this?

As a selfish aside: The whole ‘Why did Henry seem to change so much?’ question is one that has kept me up some nights into the morning trying to mull it over. I’ve pretty much came to the same conclusion as you.

All the theories about what made Henry the way he was are interesting, but to me, all of them miss the most important point. All seem to based on the fallacious idea that there was a “norm” in both political and reproductive behaviour, which, if he had been perfectly healthy, Henry VIII would naturally have conformed to. In terms of his political and personal cruelty, most of these theories are based on the pivot date of 1536 and that this was the year he turned from a basically normal leader into a more ruthless and unhinged one. This leaves aside the fact that his treatment of his father’s advisers, his first wife, eldest daughter, the Carthusian order, the duke of Buckingham, Cardinal Wolsey and some of his former confidantes had all been practically sociopathic in the years prior to 1536. The reason that he became noticeably “crueller” after 1536 is not because his personality changed; his circumstances did. The changes of religion he had forced through before 1536 provoked rebellion, which he suppressed savagely and his fifth wife almost certainly took a lover during the course of her marriage and is hypocritical repugnance regarding female sexuality was on display long before 1541. There is nothing to suggest that anything happened mentally or genetically in and around 1536 which to me seems convincing. In regards his reproductive bad luck, fertility in the early modern period was a notoriously hit-and-miss affair. Henry VII and Elizabeth of York had as many pregnancies between them as Henry VIII and Katherine of Aragon did; only three of them survived into what could properly be termed adulthood. There was quite simply a lot more that could go wrong with a pregnancy or infant in Henry VIII’s era. Alright, I’m prepared to accept that he MIGHT have suffered from low fertility, but there’s something to suggest that his paternal grandmother, the Countess of Richmond, had done so too and there were many kings who struggled to produce a son and heir, because of the dangers of childbirth and infantile death, including Henry’s brother-in-law, King Louis XII of France. His future son-in-law, Philip II, also struggled to father a living boy after the death of his eldest, Don Carlos, and looking back in English history, Henry I and Adeliza of Louvain, for some reason, failed to produce any children during their 14 year marriage, but Henry had fathered four children with his first wife and nearly twenty-four bastards with various mistresses; Adeliza had seven children with her second husband, the earl of Arundel. I think it was all down to luck and I agree that exhuming him now to try and do tests, which would almost certainly prove inconclusive, seems a bit excessive.

I would hope that the Queen would grant permission to the exhumation of Henry VIII, with the stipulation that it be done carefully and reverently for future generations. With technology as advanced the way it now and will continue to be, it will help clear up any misconceptions that are out there as to why Henry became the tyrant he turned out to be, and may help his reputation down the ages if it turns out that he indeed have a medical problem that made him the way he was.

It seems to me that the writers have adduced any real evidence for this disease and I agree that St George’s should be left alone.

Sarahp has a good point, these remains won’t be around much longer. Perhaps it wouldn’t be so bad to answer some of the questions about so many of these historic people. I don’t like the thought of disturbing the dead much either, but if it would put to rest these burning questions I say why not?

Only if there is enough DNA to prove or disprove that Henry VIII had Kell’s or Crushing syndrome or whatever. His own father, who probably died of TB, was as ruthless, if not more, in getting rid of practically everyone who had a better blood claim to the throne. Edward IV also put on much weight in his later years and as he could exercise less, grew more fond of food as did his grandson Henry VIII. The longer one lived, especially if one was wealthy and had many servants to do for one as most people had to do themselves, would predispose one to weight gain and the 1536 jousting fall possibly did have a negative effect on Henry’s health.

It is noteable to add that unlike her father, Elizabeth I ate rather sparingly, was not fond of physicians as a rule, and exercised, walked and danced far beyond the age her father had been able to. Did she choose to live as unlike her father in order to live to a ripe old age(and even then there was evidence of senile dementia or possibly Alzheimer’s in her final years), or did she inheirit enough of her mother’s genetic makeup and personality to save her from the weight gain and other health problems suffered by her father and maternal great grandfather as they aged?

I agree with you and Gareth. To ignore the political and social changes of the time and blame Henry’s behavior just does not make sense. I think that in the quest for a medical diagnosis, these doctors have not studied the Tudor era or even other rulers. Many of them were just as cruel as Henry when it came to putting down rebellions. What was considered acceptable behavior in a ruler has greatly changed over time. You can not compare Henry’s era to our own. I also have a problem with possibly damaging a beautiful piece of architecture for such a theory. The money needs to be used to preserve the past. England has so many wonderful treasures that need repair. This is just a waste of resources.

I am sure the queen will never allow this, she never did allow such things before. I am also of the opinion that Henry’s bad luck with is offspring was not the result of Kell’s, and neither was his later character change. The man had chronic malaria since his late twenties, which also causes paranoia and depression. Add that to the constant pain in his later life and the position of power he was in and you have an explanation for his behaviour. I think most everyone would start behaving tyrannical, with no one to tell you no.

That his wives had many miscarriages was just bad luck imo, Anne Boleyn might have been Rhesus negative, which would explain the miscarriages after the first healthy baby. Catherine of Aragon could have had a streptococcal uterus infection, which the babies caught during birth and died (which is still a big problem today, but can be treated). Her first pregnancy ended with a hugely swollen belly from some infection after all.

But most of all, these people only drank wine, that can’t have helped carrying a baby to term.

And the later lack of pregnant wives is easily explained by Henry’s depleting potence, which would be normal for older, fat men.

NOt only do I think tissue and hair samples should be allowed to taken from H-8, but also from every royal and noble graves around the world. These are the best documented family trees we have and a tremendous amount of knowledge could be gained by doing DNA tests. We could learn so much about how genetics progress through generations; maybe even see a pattern in evolution that has been hidden, and we could also take photographs of the skulls and reproduce the faces using modern forensic techniques – as they do for unidentified remains today. We could finally “see” what all these people looked like! For me, that alone would be worth it. It is conceivable that the knowledge gained by testing the DNA in these families could spring board us to cures for diseases of today. I have a friend whose daughter has never ate a cheeseburger or a bowl of ice cream because of a genetic liver disease. Her food is a specially prepared formula and she is in and out of the hosptial as toxic levels in her liver makes her sick. A simple cold could kill her. She is waiting for a liver transplant but is low on the list because whenever a liver that matches becomes available, there has been someone else closer to death than she and they get it. Maybe testing these families DNA would give a researcher an idea for a cure. My own daughter received a liver transplant for a genetic liver disease in 2007; she almost died leaving 4 year old twins behind. What if this testing could show a researcher how to clone organs free of genetic problems with just a few cells from a persons own body? That would eliminate rejection issues. There is a vast amount of questions that could be answered from testing DNA from family members spanning centuries. And there is a secondary reason to disturb the remains. Many rest in crypts and under floors hundreds of years old. By exhuming the remains, the structures could be evaluated for any damage that may have happened over the centuries and something cold be done about it now rather than wait for a crisis. Is there any inspections to the crypts done on a regular basis? How horrible if a hair line crack is in one now and is just a catastrophy waiting to happen because we are respecting the remains of the dead and not going into the vaults and crypts to inspect them regularly. My last reason for doing it is that the more time that goes by, the less chance of obtaining viable DNA that can be tested. So I asy – go for it and expand it to include H-8;s ancestors, children, cousins, and all the royal families and noble families through out the world. Who knows, maybe a cure for all cancers would be developed from the testing of Catherine of Aragon’s DNA? Stranger things have happened.

I just don’t thing we should tamper with his body like that, its wrong on so many levels. Yes don’t get me wrong I would love to know, but at the same time I’d feel like I was tampering with history. Not to mention I don’t think the Queen or the people of England would be to happy with others messing with their history like that.

I don’t think that exhuming Henry is a good idea. It might satisfy curiosity and prove a theory right, but it won’t change history. I think personally that Henry was very much a product of his time, and if you look at others who were close contemporaries of his we also see a lot of the same behaviour. The example of Vlad Dracula springs to mind, I certainly wouldn’t have wanted to get on his wrong side! There’s also an example from Scottish history (a few centuries before Henry I think) where one of the kings had a baby publicly killed just because she was part of a family that had a rival claim to the throne. I think Henry was a highly complex person and I don’t think we can isolate any one reason for his behaviour. His jousting accident probably was a factor, and from what I have read there were some kind of mental health issues from the de Valois ancestry which could have been passed down. Let Henry rest in peace.

Actually there is a separate entrance to Henry’s burial vault, in St George’s Chapel so the floor would not have to be damaged. I was under the impression that when the vault was last opened by in the eighteenth century, Henry’s coffin was falling apart anyway so there would be very little (if any) soft tissue left.

Henry should be left to lie in peace (and don’t forget, the vault is also the burial place of Charles I and Jane Seymour) and I agree that Lipscombe’s book gives us a superb insight into what made Henry change.

Claire….could you keep all of us up on the on going details of this maybe happening and when they would be doing this….It would be fabulous if maybe they were in the midst of it while Linda and I were in London this May……Please let us know as soon as you know what the Queen decided upon…..thank you in advance…. I would also like to thank, TudorRose for her kind remarks upon my opinion regarding Lady Jane Grey….It is nice to know that others in this forum do in fact read what all have to say…Thank You, TudorRose from David…….Have a great day!

I thought that this was a really interesting theory but going by the little I’ve read about it since, I don’t think it stacks up.

The idea of exhuming Henry VIII is incredibly tempting, particularly when you see how much information they are able to gleam from long-dead Egyptian mummies and medieval skeletons by subjecting them to a full forensic examination. The idea of being able to discover the exact state of Henry’s health is very exciting.
However, I don’t think the Queen will allow it and I think she’s right not to. Apart from the mess and disruption in what is a historical and holy place, it would set a dangerous precedent for the exhumation of controversial fiigures from the past.

I don’t approve of his exhumation, even though I am curious. It’s not relevant in any way, his body should rest in peace.

I cannot agree with your opinion that a genetic examination of Henry’s remains would not benefit us in any way. It would give us a great deal of insight into the ailments he suffered from and that in itself may help us to understand why he behaved as he did.

There is also the theory that he had syphilis. Did he or didn’t he? Another important question that needs to be considered since it can cause mental disorders.

Considering the King himself didn’t intend to spend eternity in that vault( it was suppose to be temporary) & his coffin is said to be damaged, I think it should be done. DNA testing, X-ray, & what ever may be accomplished without being too intrusive & then reinterred… Better than before. Much to be learned.

No, let the man rest in peace or in hell – wherever he happens to be now.

I do not think Henry was tyrannical at all. We seem to insist on trying to apply modern values to people living in different time periods. Holding on to power in Henry’s time was a brutal task. A weak and touchy feeling king simply could not have survives in that time. Most of what Henry did was justified based on the standards of the time. Catherine Howard committed treason, Sir Thomas More chose to die and would have been spared if he had not disobeyed Henry. Keep in mind during that time the King drew his power from God thus to disobey the King was the same as disobeying God.

I wholeheartedly wish he could be exhumed and thoroughly sampled to helpelucidate further aspects of his mental and physical state that mayhave affected political decisions. I personally cherish truth and knowledge above everything else and I would suggest a temporary exhumation of manyother sovereigns that spark my historical interest. Among them Mary I of England who was so disgracefully laid below her “golden sister”. If the English people respect and honour their monarchs, they should ask for an examination of many royal cadavers. Thus it could be easier to rehabilitate and possibly interconnect diseases spread in a hereditary manner.Think only if we knew why Queen Anne had so many miscarriages and if this is connected to her ancestor Catharine of Aragon, also suffering miscarriages, or why Mary I imagined two pregnancies.

In my above comment, I meant “Edward VI” My correction.

I Know I arrived here LONG after all is said and done but I would love to see DNA test done on H-8! I know there is no soft tissue left or blood but they have had success from teeth at least before. Surely something could be found from it. I think there just was a bunch of issues all boiled down together In the end.