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Do you think Henry regretted having Anne executed......did he even miss her?
May 4, 2010
12:45 pm
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Beth
England
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I think that depends on whether you believe that Henry truly thought she was an adultress and witch or whether he was using false charges to get rid of her. If the former, then he probably wouldn't have regretted it considering the depth of his faith and how much witches were a big no-no. He would have thought he was ridding the world of something evil, since the Christians at the time thought that witches worshipped Satan. (This is not and never has been true; Satan is a Christian concept and witches don't believe in Christian teachings. Satanists are technically Christians who have rebelled against their own religion. Oops, sorry, I'm up on my soap box!) If the latter, then it's possible that he would have possibly felt guilty if not exactly regretful. We know he was capable of it, seeing as he regretted executing Cromwell. But that could have just been because Cromwell kept his life organised!

May 4, 2010
10:23 pm
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Sabrina
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@Beth – you can get on the soapbox whenever you want. I am not christian, and the whole satan thing really gets me.

I don't know if he regretted her death. I would hope that he would've, after realizing that she was not the “wh*re” he believed her to be. Falling under her spell of intelligence and charm was not witchcraft. I'm sure every time he looked at Elizabeth, he was reminded of her. As much as Elizabeth worshipped her father, her intelligence and wit was all her mother.

Let not my enemies sit as my jury

May 5, 2010
10:07 pm
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Bella44
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Oooh, did Henry regret Anne's fate?  As much as I want to believe otherwise I really don't think he did.  In my view he COMPLETELY believed she was guilty and deserved to die so I don't see him as coming to regret her downfall in any way.  Afterwards he supposedly told Princess Mary and her half brother the Duke of Richmond that they were both lucky to be alive because Anne was planning on poisoning them.  Nor did he (to my knowledge anyway) regret Catherine Howards death.

That he should regret Cromwell's fate more than his own wives says a lot about his psychology I think!

The impact of Anne's death on the population at large is hard to ascertain; she was unpopular and had been thought of as a wh*re for a long time before hand, but I like to think that people (once they found out) had some sympathy for her even if they didn't like her personally.  It wasn't until Elizabeth became queen that there was any sort of rehabilitation of Anne's character and that people perhaps began to question the circumstances of her fall.  Suddenly because she was the reigning monarchs mother it was okay to acknowledge her again! 

May 6, 2010
2:46 am
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allison
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Beth,

can you elaborate please for me. Step up to the soapboxCool

Witches.

What do they believe in?

I had a close encounter with one here.

VINCERE VEL MORI

May 6, 2010
11:54 am
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Sharon
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Oh Boy….Henry and regret.  Don't get me started.  OOOPS..Too late.

I don't think Henry regretted killing Anne.  He wanted her out of his life forever and he got his way.  He found someone to take her place immediately.  Ha…regret?…not a chance!  Maybe, at the end of his life when he was getting ready to die….maybe then. I think Henry put Anne completely out of his mind.  The only time he thought of her, IMO, is when he looked at his daughter Elizabeth. (which wasn't that often) Even then I don't believe for one minute that he regretted killing her Mother.  He considered Elizabeth better off without Anne.

With Cromwell there is a difference.  Cromwell was Henry's right hand man.  He handled all of Henry's business, kept all records in order, and gave Henry advice.  Cromwell was a faithful servant.  And Henry must have felt lost without his trusted sidekick.  There was no other person who could fill Cromwell's shoes. Nobody was as competent as Cromwell. 

There was no man who could take Cromwell's place and be as efficient.  Whereas in the case of Anne…there was Jane… and then Anne… and then Catherine…and then…yet another Katherine.

Belle you are so right.  Henry's regret about Cromwell's death, and lack of regret for his wives, shows a deeply disturbed man.

May 6, 2010
1:02 pm
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Beth
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Allison,

Witches believe in the power of nature above all else. They also believe in a Mother Goddess and a God. Women have a much more equal role than in Christianity. Much of the symbolism was taken by the Christians while their religion was developing. This includes things like eggs at Easter and holly at Christmas. This covers most strands of Paganism, although witches usually follow Wicca. Wicca is much less regimented than Christianity, witches can celebrate their faith in whatever way they choose, however there is a Wiccan rede that must be obeyed that says 'An it harm none, do as thy will'. Basically, witches can do whatever they like as long as it doesn't bring harm to any living thing, including themselves. They also believe in the threefold law, that everything you do, good or bad, will come back to you three times over.

I'm not saying that there aren't bad witches, but most of us are peaceful tree-huggers! You get good and bad witches the same way you get good and bad people. It's just unfortunate that the bad ones get the attention.

Hope that wasn't too much of a rant! 🙂

October 4, 2010
4:57 pm
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Anne
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I think that Henry wanted a way out so he could marry Jane,but he didn’t organize this whole  ordeal and Anne’s enemies used it as a chance.For them,it seemed like a win-win situation.They could get rid of an unwanted queen,a queen that not even her king supported anymore,they could please the King,gain the favour of the new Queen…Henry,or any other man at that,wouldn’t want to be called cuckold or admit he had been fooled.And I want to believe that when the accusations came forward known actually knew that she was actually going to be executed,no queen has ever been executed,perhaps banished or deportated.Obviously,as with K.Howard Henry was enraged,hurt,jealous and vengefull.And so Anne came to her tragic end.But she was innocent,and propably he could suspect but he wouldn’t go back.Many things in this case don’t make sence and neither did back then.But the decision was taken.So,Henry,killed her obviously Anne out of vengeance.That means that he still loved her a little,but in a sick and twisted way.The way many men usually hate a woman because they used to love her.And he did miss her but to him it was obviously a shame.As I believe,he did miss KoA too but he wouldn’t admit it.He had lived ten years loving Anne,lusting Anne,fighting  with Anne,making up with Anne,discusssing with Anne.He just couldn’t ignore  2/5 of his life,nor the little redhead girl whose eyes were those of her mother

November 24, 2010
11:27 am
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Bella44
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What a tragic story.  Funny to think they were still prosecuting people for being witches during WW2, which wasn't all that long ago!

November 24, 2010
11:51 am
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Sharon
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Wow! I did not know that.  I am shocked that 1940's England was still charging people with witchcraft.  That is a little too close to today for comfort. A little scary, too. Is that law still on the books? Now I am curious.  It has me wondering if the US has that kind of stupid law on its books. I am going to have to do some research.

November 24, 2010
4:55 pm
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Anyanka
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According to Wikipedia that act was repealed and replaced by the Fraudulent Mediums act in 1951.

Although Duncan has been frequently described as the last person to be convicted under the Act, in fact, Jane Rebecca Yorke was convicted under the Act later that same year.
The last threatened use of the Act against a medium was in 1950. In
1951 the Witchcraft Act was repealed with the enactment of the Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951, largely at the instigation of Spiritualists through the agency of Thomas Brooks MP.

 

Though Jane Rebecca Yorke was actually the last to be convicted under the 1735 act.

She was arrested in July 1944. At her trial in September at London's Central Criminal Court
she was found guilty on seven counts against the Witchcraft Act of
1735. Yorke was fined £5 and placed on good behaviour for three years,
promising she would hold no more séances. The light sentence was due to
her age of 72

It's always bunnies.

November 28, 2010
9:14 pm
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MegC
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I think in my town it is illegal to walk down the sidewalk with an ice cream cone in your pocket.  In several southern states it is illegal to have sex in anything but the missionary position.  It is illegal in my state for 8 women or more to live in the same house because then it is considered a brothel.  My personal favorite non-sensical law is that the county where Jack Daniel's Whiskey is made is a dry county–it's illegal to sell liquor there.  The distillery is the only place in the county that can sell alcohol and they can only sell Jack Daniel's and never on Sunday.

Anyway, on to the question:  Henry would never have admitted that he missed Anne or regretted her murder (though, I'm sure he never saw it as such).  I think the only thing that made him admit his regret over Cromwell's death was probably frustration that things no longer ran as smoothly was they once had.  Cromwell always kind of seemed to anticipate Henry's desires and expectations and always accomplished things with minimal inconvenience to the King.  Once he was gone, no one would really fill his shoes.  If someone had been able to fully step into Cromwell's place, Henry wouldn't have regretted his death either.  I also think that he began to realize, after Cromwell's death, that he had been manipulated into having Cromwell executed by Cromwell's enemies at court, and, deep down, he probably realized that if he could have been manipulated into Cromwell's execution, then he also could have been manipulated into Anne's execution.  I think I even read somewhere that he did realize that Cromwell's charges had been trumped up by his enemies.  If he realized this, then he had to, on some level, realize that it was possible that Anne's charges, too, were possibly false.  Would he have ever admitted this–even to himself?  No way, but I believe he was conscious of it, and it probably didn't help to make him a more pleasant person later in life.  

I also think that his marriage to Katherine Howard was a direct result of the fact that he missed Anne.  I think something about Katherine's youth and vitality reminded Henry of Anne and he was trying to recapture that.  Then, of course, Katherine was beheaded because of her own indiscretions and Henry went searching for another Jane Seymour/Anne of Cleves and found Katherine Parr.  

"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"

November 30, 2010
2:05 pm
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Boleynfan
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I agree, MegC. In regard to Katherine Howard, perhaps something in Katherine also reminded him of Anne considering they were cousins? There could have even been a very mild family resemblance, some minor thing that was like Anne. Henry probably did not realize or acknowledge what he was doing when he married her though. I think he also married her to recapture his own youth and vitality.

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

March 9, 2011
1:00 am
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La Belle Creole
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I doubt Henry ever regretted murdering Anne Boleyn any more than he regretted any other murders, thefts, and cruelties he doled out like candy to pretty much everybody around him. 

If anything, I'm sure Henry felt sorry for HIMSELF for being “beset” with disloyal, faithless, traitorous subjects and family members.  Inconvenient wives, opportunistic friends, “incompetent” ministers and administrators. 

Anne Boleyn was just one more imperfect person who “let Henry down.”  She was supposed to present him with a fit, healthy male child and she didn't do that.  In the world according to Henry, that amounted to treason. 

March 9, 2011
5:47 am
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DuchessofBrittany
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Henry convinced himself that Anne was guilty. She denied him a son. Henry probably convinced himself that killing Anne was just cause, since he moved heaven and earth to make her Queen, only to have her not hold up her end of the deal.

Of course, execution was the legal way to deal with people who committed treason. Anne was found guility, so it made it easier for Henry to sign her death warrant.

I agree with La Belle Creole that Henry ever regretted any of his judicious orders for execution. The King was the law, and the law was how Henry saw fit to instill law and order, Tudor style.

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

March 9, 2011
7:29 am
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Sophie1536
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I don't think Henry gave Anne another thought once he'd executed her as his thoughts were too much of Jane Seymour and the son she would give him and as for missing her, no not at all……BUT I do believe that as Henry lay dying I think she must have come into his thoughts and yes I do think then Henry was terribly guilty at what he'd done to her and the others.

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March 9, 2011
9:04 am
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La Belle Creole
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I think an obvious clue concerning Henry's feelings about Anne is the obvious difference in how he treated Elizabeth compared to his other children.  His marked cruelty and neglect of Mary Tudor was a purely political move.  Once Mary signed all the oaths, he welcomd her back into his life and showered her with gifts. His two sons were both treated with marked deference and care throughout their lives.  Elizabeth, however, faced neglect and was sometimes out of favor with her father.  Unlike Mary, Elizabeth never demanded her legitimacy or refused to acknowledge Henry's authority as sovereign and head of the church.

I don't believe Henry doubted Elizabeth's paternity — it's impossible to look at Elizabeth and not see the obvious resemblance to Elizabeth of York and to Henry himself.  It seems pretty likely to me Elizabeth served as an unwelcome reminder of Anne Boleyn, a woman executed by Henry on (at best) extremely flimsy evidence of treason. 

Of course this isn't proof of a guilty conscience on Henry's part, but it definitely signifies he was not entirely comfortable with Anne and, perhaps, his part in her death.  People tend to loathe people they've wronged, and Henry wronged Elizabeth in the worst way imaginable.  He killled her mother.

March 11, 2011
5:02 am
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Impish_Impulse
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I agree with both your posts here, La Belle. Henry was a self-centered SOB.

                        survivor ribbon                             

               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

April 12, 2011
12:14 pm
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Sharon
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I hate it when I get sidetracked like this, but I was looking something up on an entirely different subject when I came across a quote in Joanne Denny's book, Anne Boleyn, A New Life of England's tragic Queen:

As he lay dying, Henry confessed the many injustices of his reign and allegedly was truly repentant, and among other things on account of the injury and crime committed against the said Queen, {Anne Boleyn}”  Denny is quoting D'Aubigny, Vol. 2 pg 491.

Anyone ever heard this before?

April 12, 2011
7:44 pm
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Sarah
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I think the only thing Henry would have regretted about Anne was ever meeting her. He would thrown himself a pity party ” Oh woe is me”

Henry was only ever in love with one person.

Himself.

"For her behaviour, manners, attire and tongue she excelled them all."— Lancelot de Carles



 

 

April 13, 2011
6:26 am
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La Belle Creole
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Sharon said:

I hate it when I get sidetracked like this, but I was looking something up on an entirely different subject when I came across a quote in Joanne Denny's book, Anne Boleyn, A New Life of England's tragic Queen:

As he lay dying, Henry confessed the many injustices of his reign and allegedly was truly repentant, and among other things on account of the injury and crime committed against the said Queen, {Anne Boleyn}”  Denny is quoting D'Aubigny, Vol. 2 pg 491.

Anyone ever heard this before?


I've never heard of this before, but I think it's certainly possible.  I would be extremely repentant if I led a life like that man's.

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