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7:24 pm
February 24, 2010
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Oh Louise, this is beautiful!
You bring George to life for us. Thank you.
1:02 pm
January 3, 2012
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Did Jane watch her husband die? or was she packed off to Horsham by then. I actually wonder how she must have felt when she knew her husband was dead? Poor Jane I do feel that she was badly treated by Cromwell and the trouble is that despite her innocence in the whole Anne/George conpirecy there were people who believed she was guilty in sending them to their deaths.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
3:18 pm
December 5, 2009
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Following George’s death Jane wasn’t badly treated by Cromwell. In fact, quite the opposite. He took care in ensuring she got her full entitlement from Thomas Boleyn. It’s that care which is quoted in support of the suggestion that she provided Cromwell with evidence to pin an incest allegation on the siblings.
You could of course look at it another way. Perhaps Cromwell was acting out of a sense of guilt in making sure Jane was comfortably off bearing in mind he knew damn well her husband had been taken from her when he was in fact entirely innocent. Belated contrition in helping a widow who he had helped make a widow?
11:11 pm
November 18, 2010
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One of the theories I’ve read has Jane being some kind of spy for Cromwell in both Jane’s and Anne’s household. And on his prompting ,was one of the women who was asking pointed questions about AoC’s marital bed.
It's always bunnies.
1:47 pm
February 16, 2009
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Good old PG has Jane doing Norfolk’s bidding and trying to bring down Anne of Cleves like she apparently brought down Anne and George.
Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn
5:59 pm
February 24, 2010
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Boleyn said
Did Jane watch her husband die? or was she packed off to Horsham by then. I actually wonder how she must have felt when she knew her husband was dead? Poor Jane I do feel that she was badly treated by Cromwell and the trouble is that despite her innocence in the whole Anne/George conpirecy there were people who believed she was guilty in sending them to their deaths.
I have a feeling that after the trials, all of the women were left scratching their heads asking, “Who said that?” “It wasn’t me.” I think whatever was said was so twisted that none of them would have recognized their own testimony. None of them even testified at trial. If the women around Anne did say what was presented at the trial, why weren’t they in the Tower for aiding and abetting treason?
I don’t think Jane was present at the executions. She must have been devastated. As Louise says Cromwell helped her to receive her entitlements from Thomas Boleyn. I agree that this was belated contrition on Cromwell’s part. I add contrition on Henry’s part too. Henry allowed her to return to court to serve Jane. Now I ask, would Henry have allowed Jane Boleyn to serve his precious Jane if he thought she was a wicked woman?
I have recently read a book where Jane was working for Norfolk as a spy during Anne’s time as well as during Katherine Howard’s time. Apparently it works for fiction writers. Unfortunately, it becomes the truth for a good percentage of readers.
4:08 pm
January 3, 2012
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Yes I agree with you about Jane Boleyn. If she was as wicked as was made out no way would she be allowed back to court and serve the next 3 queens. Certainly I feel that Thomas Boleyn washed his hands of her and refused to even consider giving her a widows pension and it was Cromwell who was able to get what she was entitled from Thomas B.
Hardly any compensation for the fact that her marriage prospects had been completely ruined as well. She really had no hope of remarriage after the debarcle of Anne’s trial. The more I read and learn about Jane.B the more I am convinced that she was just a pawn in Henry’s game of Chess.
I had heard that when Henry made up his mind to get rid of Anne and she and George were in the Tower, he was going to order Mary B arrest too.
I would like to know for what reason? Her relationship was long over with Henry and besides which she was all but banished from court due to her marriage Will Stafford.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
4:35 pm
December 5, 2009
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I’ve never heard that Mary Boleyn was in danger of arrest. Henry’s relationship with her was used as the reason to have his marriage to Anne annulled, so in that sense Mary was useful to him.
6:07 pm
January 3, 2012
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Louise said
I’ve never heard that Mary Boleyn was in danger of arrest. Henry’s relationship with her was used as the reason to have his marriage to Anne annulled, so in that sense Mary was useful to him.
I actually find this laughable if you think about it. Before Henry told the Pope to go do one, he asked the pope to grant him a dispansation because of his prior relationship with Mary then he turns around and uses the incest excuse to try and rid himself of Anne. Madness..
Did Mary have any contact at all with Elizabeth after Anne and George’s deaths?
We know that she died in 1542, and that her children supposedly by Henry were at Elizabeth’s court, but did Mary see Elizabeth at all from Anne’s death up until her own?
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
7:57 pm
February 24, 2010
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Mary and Stafford came back to England by the end of 1539. They returned escorting AOC. Stafford was definitely at court. His star was on the rise and he served the king, as a Gentlemen Pensioner and later as Esquire of the Body. He gave testimony against KH. He fought for the king in France. I’m not sure Elizabeth was around that much, yet. Mary died in July of ’43. In her book, Mary Boleyn, Weir says it doesn’t seem likely that Elizabeth and Mary spent much time together. She had no documentation for it either way. So…your guess and my guess are as good as Weir’s guess.
11:07 am
April 9, 2011
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Are you saying that Alison actually respected the evidence and didn’t make some random bit of information up for giggles?
11:44 am
January 3, 2012
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Sharon said
Mary and Stafford came back to England by the end of 1539. They returned escorting AOC. Stafford was definitely at court. His star was on the rise and he served the king, as a Gentlemen Pensioner and later as Esquire of the Body. He gave testimony against KH. He fought for the king in France. I’m not sure Elizabeth was around that much, yet. Mary died in July of ’43. In her book, Mary Boleyn, Weir says it doesn’t seem likely that Elizabeth and Mary spent much time together. She had no documentation for it either way. So…your guess and my guess are as good as Weir’s guess.
Thank you Sharon. It seems such a shame that we know so little about Mary Boleyn, and yet she must have had that certain something to have been the King’s mistress for almost 2 years I believe. I know that Anne was very pissed off at Mary for marrying someone who she felt was lower class (Stafford) but I say bravo Mary. I don’t know what her marriage was like with William Carey if she was happy or not. Again that is down to the fact that we know so little about her, but I suspect it was one like George and Jane’s marriage mutrual satifaction.
I’d like to think that she may have had some contact with Elizabeth after all Mary was really Elizabeth’s last link to her mother.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
3:00 pm
December 5, 2009
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Oh to hell with it. Here’s my GB poem, and the worse thing is..IT’S TRUE!!
For My Birthday
My birthday’s round the corner,
And in the morning when I wake,
All I want is George Boleyn
Leap out my birthday cake.
I’m not a greedy person,
So before you laugh and jest;
All I want is George Boleyn
Shoot down my chimney breast.
Oh, I love my Georgie;
He’s such a lovely chap.
I want him for my birthday,
Tied up in bubble wrap.
I’d have such fun in popping him
Till every bubble’d burst.
And then I’d say to Georgie,
“Come on boy, do your worst!”
I don’t think I’m irrational,
And I don’t mean to be funny;
But all I want is George Boleyn,
And a man sized jar of honey!
I’m about to start therapy, and apparently there is hope of recovery.
7:07 pm
February 24, 2010
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You little devil, you!
Love it! 
10:09 am
December 5, 2009
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Sharon said
You little devil, you!
Love it!
I’ll be raising a glass to George and the other four men tonight.
May they rest in peace. xxxxx
10:14 am
December 5, 2009
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I’ve just read a comment on a Facebook page which made me smack my head on the desk. It was saying that the men who died as Anne’s ‘lovers’ all had good aspects to their personalities (so far so good) but that for them to have acted in the play about Wolsey wasn’t very nice. Bang, bang, bang!!
Mantel’s book didn’t come out that long ago and already some people are confusing that with fact. We don’t need to ask how all these myths about the Tudors start; we’ve seen one start under our very noses.
Excuse me, I have to take an asprin.
3:50 pm
May 3, 2013
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I’m not sure that Mantel can be blamed for what is an obvious plot-device; it’s just a pity that some readers take such things literally (in this case, they want to believe it).
Am I right in thinking that the identity of the actors remains unknown?
4:04 pm
December 5, 2009
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I agree that Mantel can’t be blamed for the fact that some of the people who read her books are a bit thick, but she can be blamed for giving the impression that her books are accurate. When she comes out with comments such as ‘I rarely make things up’, which is what she came out with in an interview a while ago, or ‘we have a duty to be as historically accurate as possible’ which is another one of her comments, then that muddies the water as to what should be taken with a pinch of salt. She’s basically conning her audience.
The play about Wolsey was commissioned by Thomas Boleyn for the benefit of the French Ambassador shortly after Wolsey’s death. In such circumstances he would have hired a troop of actors. Certainly the gentlemen of Henry’s court wouldn’t stoop to acting in a farce. This has to be the most ridiculous plot of any historical fiction book I’ve read to then suggest this as a reason why Cromwell had a downer on the man. Mad!
4:37 pm
May 3, 2013
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Louise said
‘I rarely make things up’, which is what she came out with in an interview a while ago, or ‘we have a duty to be as historically accurate as possible’ which is another one of her comments, then that muddies the water as to what should be taken with a pinch of salt. She’s basically conning her audience.
She’s a novelist…how on earth can she reconcile those comments with the fact that novelists are obliged to entertain, speculate, weave fiction etc?
Louise said
The play about Wolsey was commissioned by Thomas Boleyn for the benefit of the French Ambassador shortly after Wolsey’s death. In such circumstances he would have hired a troop of actors. Certainly the gentlemen of Henry’s court wouldn’t stoop to acting in a farce. This has to be the most ridiculous plot of any historical fiction book I’ve read to then suggest this as a reason why Cromwell had a downer on the man. Mad!
Yes, it’s cheap and expedient. It works though, albeit solely in the context of the story & is a neat tying-up of the various threads regarding the accused men. I think Mantel genuinely is a fine writer…but she seems personally rather self-righteous these days. Her current fame – after years of only minor success – has perhaps allowed her ego to burst the banks & have free reign.
5:15 pm
October 28, 2011
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Facebook is bad for your health Louise, I saw you there earlier
Mantel can reconcile those comments Steve, because she doesn’t want to be put in the historical fiction rubbish bin and needs to sell her books. The publishers tend to market historical fiction towards the romance fiction audience (which usually requires a headless woman in a gown) If they’re going to spin Bring up the Bollocks as serious literary fiction they have to present Mantel as a great intellect. She clearly has an excellent grasp on her Thesaurus but seems to be confused as to how to actually use the words in the correct grammatical fashion, all the while confusing her tenses within the same paragraph. But if you slap a Booker prize on it, it’s literary. If she keeps dramatically intoning that “we don’t know if Anne was guilty or not” people will keep buying her books, historically accurate or no.
I’m glad you found some suggestions in the book Louise. I envy you, my eyes were tearing up from intense boredom as I was reading, I suspect I missed any actual intentions
