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Titanic Centenary, what will you do?
January 21, 2012
3:25 am
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Neil Kemp
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Ipaud, wow, thank you for such a detailed, comprehensive and well thought out reply. I do not think I could match your expert analysis on this subject without having a new brain fitted! I will try and give your posts some thought this weekend and see if I can come up with any intelligent reply. I don't know any details of the Adriatic's pool off the top of my head, but I will try and find this out. Regarding the ship's speed, I always thought that the Cunard liners did 25 knots and that the White Star ships were some 5 knots below this? You seem to know a lot more about this than I so you are probably better informed than me, but I'll try and check on the ship's top speed as well.

In reply to the easy question, I was born and raised in Ramsgate, Kent, spent a little time elsewhere, and then returned to the area where I now live, Margate (only about 4 miles from Ramsgate). Both of these towns are on the Isle of Thanet, although Thanet is now an island in name only. So as well as all of this maritime heritage I am also on the doorstep of a lot of other history as well (Roman landing site, Dover Castle, Walmer Castle, Deal Castle, Leeds Castle, Hever etc), which makes me a very lucky person indeed! 

January 21, 2012
4:50 am
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Neil Kemp
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ipaud, just a quick update. Although there seems to be some small variations in what is regarded as each ship's top speed, it would also seem that, although the Cunard liners were faster, there was not a great deal in it regarding top speed, perhaps a couple of knots. So you are indeed better informed than I!

Titanic's call sign of MGY was just that, it had no other meaning (apart from the M prefix) and simply meant that MGY was Titanic. These days, of course, any call sign would be prefixed with the Country of registration, but back in 1912 this distinction was not in place.

January 21, 2012
5:21 am
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ipaud
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Sounds just about right Neil, if there was one place on God's Earth that would tempt me away from my home Kerry here in Ireland, Neill Kent would be that place.

Ship speeds were not anything that I had ever given much thought to, I am confident that our navy people will get involved shortly and give us insight to all this. The “sales pitch” on Titanic's spec was given as;

Installed power:
  • 24 double-ended (six furnace) and 5 single-ended (three furnace) Scotch Marine Boilers
  • Two four-cylinderreciprocating Triple expansion Steam Engines each producing 15,000 HP for the two outboard wing propellers at 75 revolutions per minute
  • One low-pressure turbine producing 16,000 HP
  • A total of 46,000 HP (design) – 59,000 HP (maximum)
Propulsion:
  • Two bronze triple-blade wing propellers
  • One bronze quadruple-blade centre propeller
Speed:
  • 21 Knots (39 km/h; 24 mph)
  • 23 knots (43 km/h; 26 mph) (maximum)

 This is what I can get from the Wiki on Titanic Neil.

In what I have read, White Star and Cunard were up against each other in the early part of the last Century. I suspect much of the marketing would show up as British Airways V Ryanair. White Star in second class were giving the first class Cunard treatment. Class was important then, on the British side, you were born with it. On the American side, money commanded the same respect. 833 passengers in first class paid the equivalent of £100,000 in today money for a one way ticket. a premium price for travel on a ship that has had no rival then or now.

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

January 23, 2012
10:36 am
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Neil Kemp
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ipaud, just by way of another brief update, it would seem that RMS Adriatic was not only the first ship to have a swimming pool but also Turkish baths. As regards the technical detail I, like yourself, will wait for the maritime experts now as I have probably come to the limit of my knowledge on this subject (I think my poor brain needs some honey!).

January 24, 2012
1:42 am
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Sophie1536
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I'm actually not planning to do anything, I'm more focused on 2014 and WW1 celebrations.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/nicksbabe28/Backstreet%20n%20Graffix/Image4-1.jpg

January 24, 2012
7:50 am
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ipaud
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Yes Sophie, from here on in, there will be many anniversaries to remember with WW1 centenary approaching. Did you know that Titanic's sister ship “Britannic” was used as a hospital ship during WW1? It was sunk off the Isle of Kew on its way to her sixth mission to collect the injured.

Germany always maintained that Britannic has arms on board and that is why it sunk in 55 minutes. The waters are not very deep compared to where her sister lies, the Titanic. However, the co-ordinates given by the British Navy were off by about 10 miles. Recently the Wreck of Britannic was dived on having been discovered by Jacques Cousteau in the 1970's. You will be delighted to hear that no arms were found in the wreck.

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

January 24, 2012
10:32 am
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Neil Kemp
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ipaud,

Britannic was sunk off the Greek island of Kea and as you rightly point out is in shallow water. She is however an official military grave which has protected her from unauthorised dives and wreck-hunters.

January 30, 2012
11:01 am
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Anyanka
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BBC hosts gathering of Titanic descendants

 

More than 120 descendants of passengers and crew from the Titanic have been brought together by the BBC.

The gathering in Southampton, which was held ahead of the 100th anniversary of the liner sinking, is believed to be the largest of its kind.

Relatives shared memories at the event and many stories were recorded for broadcast for the first time.

It's always bunnies.

February 19, 2012
5:57 pm
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ipaud
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Thank you Anyanka, I will keep an eye out for that program, it should be interesting to hear their stories.

There is a story told by the engine room crew who resigned en mass after the sea trials that Titanic was not in fact Titanic but a hastily repaired Olympic after her accident with Hawke in the Isle of Wight. There was a story circulating, that a quick name swap was effected in Belfast and there was a covert plan in place to scupper the ship en route to New York, or so the story went. The Captain on board Olympic at the time of the accident was Captain Smith, different to his popular history, he had a history of accidents at sea, albeit, no lives were lost.  

Something that the inquiry's into the loss of Titanic could not find a reason as to why the fifth compartment flooded from underneath as no damage was done to the side of the ship by the iceberg. A ship with a broken back is worthless except for scrap.

I am not totally convinced by this story but if you take the fact that JP Morgan and 54 other 1st class passengers cancelled their passage at the last minute? With a coal strike and no work for seamen, all the boiler crew resigned? The Californian sailed a few hours before Titanic with almost no passengers with a cargo of lifebelts apparently? It is easy to see a conspiracy theory take hold? All advertising pictures of Titanic were actually Olympic as titanic was still being fitted out in Belfast and only left Harland and Wolff shipyard a few days before.

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

February 19, 2012
6:11 pm
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ipaud
Ireland
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Just read back over the last post and regarding the fifth compartment, there was no side damage to that section of the ship but it did flood from underneath. Just to clarify.

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

February 19, 2012
6:50 pm
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Mya Elise
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I remember reading somewhere on Yahoo that Titanic could have easily been prevented – A man who's grandfather or father survived the ship had an interview and was talking about how not everything necessary to do was done to stop the ship from hitting the Ice berg. I'll try to find it but it's been many months since I saw the article…

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

February 21, 2012
3:19 am
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ipaud
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Thank you Mya Elise, I would Love to see that article, if you do come across it or if you knew the publication, I can search on line maybe?

My own belief is it was a combination of events and mistakes and also sea faring practice 100 years ago. Conservative estimates have made the iceberg larger than Titanic, the night was dark without a moon and the iceberg did not have waves crashing about it, giving it away. Much is made of the look outs not having “spy glasses” but the White Star guidelines were to have them to hand and to search with the naked eye. The “spy glasses” are a fore runner of binoculars and do not give the same view or clarity. Binoculars have a prisms and give the impression of one complete circle, whereas the “Spy glasses” were two telescopes side by side, using standard refractor technology. I can guarantee you that they would have not helped on the night in question as it was so dark, it would have been impossible to view through them. While the night was still, as the ship was traveling at over 20 knots, goggles would have helped more against the created windshield factor in the lookouts eyes. There were just minutes between first sight of the iceberg and the collision with it, not enough time to turn the Titanic, however First Officer Murdoch almost pulled off the maneuver. Going on the Olympic accident, if Murdoch had slowed the ship and hit it dead on, only one compartment would have flooded and they would have been able to limp on or stay afloat until help arrived. By reversing the engines, in an effort to slow the ship, Murdoch created a local current around Titanic, that would have put Titanic's rudder under more pressure to turn and skirt the iceberg.The achilles heel of the Titanic may possibly have been some of the most forward rivets were made of iron instead of steel. There was a riveting machine used but it was too large for the shipyard to get into the narrower areas of the ships hull. With the coldness of the water, the iron would have been much weaker than the steel and would have easily popped on hitting the iceberg, thus allowing water to rush in.

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

February 23, 2012
12:38 am
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ipaud
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There is so much written about “Unsinkable Titanic” but this was not the description that The White Star Line gave to their prize Ocean Liner. A maritime periodical took it from a local Belfast Newspaper who had written about Titanic as “Practically unsinkable.” As we say today, it went equivalent to “viral” and was on every ones lips by the time Titanic left on her maiden voyage.

The advances of the industrial age had given the Industrial Nations a dangerous attitude of infallibility and with Titanic’s safety features, the ship was seen as, in the worst-case scenario, to have the ability to stay afloat for hours after any incident. Lifeboats were seen as a way of transporting people to and from a support ship in as was erroneously seen, the unlikely event a major accident were to happen. Prior to the Titanic disaster, this was pretty much the view of anyone connected to sea travel at that time. The recommended number of Lifeboats for Titanic was sixteen, in fact White Star had upped that to twenty. However, this gave just 1,178 places in the ships total population of 2,223.

On that bitterly cold night of the 14th of April, it was inconceivable to the passengers that the slightest of scrapes with an iceberg was going to sink the ship and the Captain and crew were just erring on the side of caution and there was no great need or urgency to leave Titanic and go in a lifeboat. The unappealing prospect of spending time in a lifeboat on a freezing cold and dark night, would possibly explain why the first few lifeboats left half full. To passengers and crew this was just tantamount to a safety drill. 51 lifeboats in total would have been needed to accommodate all on board.

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

February 24, 2012
5:27 pm
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Anyanka
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Menu from Titanic's final day to be auctioned

It's always bunnies.

February 25, 2012
3:50 am
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ipaud
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Thank you Anyanka,

the 3rd class menu doubled as a post card and country to what has been shown, the 3rd class passengers were better looked after than on any of the other lines such as Cunard. They were White Star's way to success, a full compliment of steerage passengers paid for the trip and 1st and second class was pure profit for the line. By 1912 standards, steerage were well looked after, as White Star needed them to recommend them over the other liners. So by sending the menu as a post card, they were showing potential passengers how well they were being looked after.

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

March 2, 2012
3:17 am
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ipaud
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Captain Edward J. Smith of the Titanic.
Born on January 27, 1850, in Hanley, Staffordshire, England. Captain Smith married Eleanor Pennington in 1887. The couple welcomed their only child, Helen, in 1902, so devoted a father was Captain Smith, the maiden voyage of Titanic was to be his last charge before retiring, the reason he gave, was to spend more time with Helen, his daughter. Leaving school at the age of 12, he signed on to the crew of the Senator Weber in 1867. Quickly rising through the ranks to attain the rank of first officer in 1875. The first vessel he commanded was the Lizzie Fennell, a 1,000-ton ship that moved goods to and from South America. Smith made the leap to passenger vessels in 1880 when he went to work for the White Star Line. At his new post he excelled and as White Star made bigger and bigger ships, they always called on Captain Smith to take charge. The trans-Atlantic sea travelling class, who often changed their sea passage to be on Captain Smith’s ship, also shared this confidence.
Captain smith went down with Titanic; he was last seen at the helm in the wheelhouse. Much maligned at the inquiries after, Captain Smith was not in charge of Titanic the night it sank. Titanic’s second in command William Murdoch was at the helm. Had Smith been at the helm, he might have elected to not avoid the iceberg, but instead reduce speed and hit dead on. Captain Smith had been at the helm of Olympic a few months previous and had seen first hand a collision between Olympic and HMS Hawke.
With the bow badly damaged, the ship was sound and made it back to Belfast for repairs. However, Captain Smith had a mistrust of Radio and perhaps did not try to contact other ships nearby early enough. The “Californian” was barely visible but steaming away from Titanic. If contact were made early enough, many more lives would most likely, have been saved.

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

March 13, 2012
8:16 pm
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Anyanka
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It's always bunnies.

March 13, 2012
8:20 pm
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Anyanka
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Titanic letter to return to Belfast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17349793

It's always bunnies.

March 14, 2012
2:44 pm
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DuchessofBrittany
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After intially posting I would probably not do much around the Titanic commemmoration, I have to eat my words. I was offered a temporary reseach job with a local company in PEI who is producing a Titanic dinner theatre in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Needless to say, in the last few weeks, I’ve learned a lot about the people aboard the ship, their lives, and their fates. I find myself mover by stories of heroism and survival, but also by those who gave their own lives to help others.
The dinner theatre will explore the class conflicts on the night of 14th of April. The actors will portray real people who were on board that night. The food is a selection from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd class menus on that night.

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

March 14, 2012
2:54 pm
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Boleyn
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Did anyone happened to see the pictures of the Titanic in their local papers? They were amazing they somehow managed to sent some robot cams more or less right down to the wreakage. When she split in half due to the postion of the back end of the ship, the boffins reckon that it went down like a one of those Sycamore seed. Makes you wonder just what is still down there to find? I think there has been a few attempts to bring her up?

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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