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The perfect marriage, or not?
May 28, 2012
8:35 pm
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Anyanka
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Almost certainly Henry would have had his ladies of pleasure. It was to an extent, expected of a king.

Henry would never have repudiated the mother of his legitimate male heir, had Katherine been that, she was safe as queen. Anne could never have beome henry’s wife. Maybe she would have become his mistress but somehow I doubt it….

It's always bunnies.

May 28, 2012
10:36 pm
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Elliemarianna
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Olga said

Actually I do think if Katherine had managed to have a reasonably large family like Henry was raised in that he would have been perfectly content with her. Katherine was born royalty and raised to be a Queen. She behaved, in their happy times, like the perfect wife and Queen. Henry would have been allowed his indiscretions, his bad temper, his flights of fancy, his irresponsibility without Katherine batting an eyelid. What reason would there have been, if it had all gone according to “plan”, to be unhappy? And no I don’t think he was incapable of settling down before his first divorce. He married her as soon as he was able and they had many years together.
As for him remarrying after Katherine’s death, well I suspect she would have lived a lot longer had she not gone through what she did in her later years, and if she had left heirs behind there wouldn’t be the desperate need for them.

I disagree, as Katherine’s looks seemed to play a large part in Henry’s feelings for her. Once she aged and put on weight he went off her, and when she couldn’t not produce children anymore he dropped her like a hot potato. He would have stayed married to her, but no doubt found ‘love’ elsewhere.

"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.

May 29, 2012
1:39 pm
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Janet
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I doubt Henry would have remained faithful even if he had a dozen sons. It was just a way of life with him and the sons he did or didn’t have had nothing to do with it. He may have ended up being happy with KOA, but that didn’t preclude having a mistress.

May 29, 2012
2:57 pm
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Boleyn
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Personally I think that who ever lard Arse was married to and if he had a dozen sons as Janet says, he would have still strayed. It wasn’t in Lard arse’s nature to remain faithful. I’m in agreement Ellie here. Lard arse would have stayed married to her if her sons had lived but I think his relationship with her would be purely platonic in nature towards the end of her life.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

May 29, 2012
6:06 pm
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Mya Elise
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Exactly, and thats why I started this topic, Henry was basically incapable of fidelity. And I wouldn’t call it being ‘happy’ if he stayed married to Katherine while living life with dozens of mistresses, thats not happiness it’s boredum. It’s like a spoiled child getting bored with his bike and once he see’s a new and 10X more fancier bike on a TV commerical he has to have it, that was Henry with women. Of course if he stayed married to Katherine and she gave him at least 2 sons then those responsibilites of having a “perfect” obedient wife and sons to succeed him are no longer a concern for him thus Anne B even thinking she had a chance was impossible, she probably would of never came in the picture – maybe she would of married Percy since Wolsey nor the king had a reason to stop it. ?

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

May 29, 2012
6:26 pm
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Boleyn
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I think that Lard Arse would have still made a play for Anne to be his mistress even if KOA had sons that lived. Although how he would have felt being told to sod off by her I don’t know.
Baby Mya is growing up very fast at least now she’s not getting so messy when she’s eating her tea, although I can’t say much for the table manners of her dad and her brothers, they really are mucky pups… LOL

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

May 30, 2012
5:54 am
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Olga
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With all due respect guys, I didn’t mention love or fidelity in any of my posts. I said he would have been content staying married to her had she have had sons, whether or not he would have strayed is not the issue for me. So I’ll stick to my opinion, I think he would have stayed married to her until her death, Katherine would have put up with his mistresses and he still would have treated her “well”. Our modern standards and being regular people don’t really relate to what would have made a contented, if not happy, royal marriage 500 years ago.
Henry wasn’t capable of being monogamous, no. Neither was most of the male population back then. Up until the divorce I don’t view him as being a particularly bad husband.

May 30, 2012
12:04 pm
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Boleyn
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Quite right Olga. and yes I think taking his many mistresses/conquests out of the equation for a sec, during his first marriage he wasn’t too bad a husband.
KOA was brought up as most Royal princesses were to except their husband’s conquests, and of course she would have seen how her mother acted around Ferdinand’s conquests and followed her mother’s example by simply shutting her eyes to them.
It was the excepted norm of the Nobility to have a mistress, although to be fair there were a few kings who did remain faithful to their wives.
Edward 1st was devoted to Eleanor and I don’t think he ever strayed, I believe Edward 3rd was the same when it came to Phillipa too.
Did Henry stray all the while he was chasing Anne?
I know after he married her he had a few conquests which she wasn’t happy about. In the end she sort of excepted it and said well if he must have a mistress lets make it one of the Howard clan. So Madge Shelton was pushed forward.
I’m also wondering if Norfolk’s brain was sort of thinking then about K.H and putting her forward as a possible candidate for a mistress for Henry too.. That’s of course if we place K.H’s birth date at being 1520. K.H would have been about the right age 14/15 for Lard Arse to have a dalliance with..
I’m in the process of writing an opinion of Norfolk etc at the moment which I’ll will post for everyone to read.. I predict there will be surge in aspirin sales and Electricity bills will go be lower for the next quarter too. I rather think either Louise or Ellie may well be sharpening up their Iron Maiden’s and oiling the rack through..

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

May 30, 2012
12:04 pm
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Boleyn
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Quite right Olga. and yes I think taking his many mistresses/conquests out of the equation for a sec, during his first marriage he wasn’t too bad a husband.
KOA was brought up as most Royal princesses were to except their husband’s conquests, and of course she would have seen how her mother acted around Ferdinand’s conquests and followed her mother’s example by simply shutting her eyes to them.
It was the excepted norm of the Nobility to have a mistress, although to be fair there were a few kings who did remain faithful to their wives.
Edward 1st was devoted to Eleanor and I don’t think he ever strayed, I believe Edward 3rd was the same when it came to Phillipa too.
Did Henry stray all the while he was chasing Anne?
I know after he married her he had a few conquests which she wasn’t happy about. In the end she sort of excepted it and said well if he must have a mistress lets make it one of the Howard clan. So Madge Shelton was pushed forward.
I’m also wondering if Norfolk’s brain was sort of thinking then about K.H and putting her forward as a possible candidate for a mistress for Henry too.. That’s of course if we place K.H’s birth date at being 1520. K.H would have been about the right age 14/15 for Lard Arse to have a dalliance with..
I’m in the process of writing an opinion of Norfolk etc at the moment which I’ll will post for everyone to read.. I predict there will be surge in aspirin sales and Electricity bills will go be lower for the next quarter too. I rather think either Louise or Ellie may well be sharpening up their Iron Maiden’s and oiling the rack through..

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

May 30, 2012
1:04 pm
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Bill1978
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Actually I do think if Katherine had managed to have a reasonably large family like Henry was raised in that he would have been perfectly content with her. Katherine was born royalty and raised to be a Queen. She behaved, in their happy times, like the perfect wife and Queen. Henry would have been allowed his indiscretions, his bad temper, his flights of fancy, his irresponsibility without Katherine batting an eyelid. What reason would there have been, if it had all gone according to “plan”, to be unhappy? And no I don’t think he was incapable of settling down before his first divorce. He married her as soon as he was able and they had many years together.
As for him remarrying after Katherine’s death, well I suspect she would have lived a lot longer had she not gone through what she did in her later years, and if she had left heirs behind there wouldn’t be the desperate need for them.

Totally agree with everything Olga says. On paper and around the court the marriage definitely would have been viewed as a happy one. Even with the multiple affairs that Henry would have had if he remained married to KoA it still would have been defined as happy. It was an expectation that the King would be allowed to have mistresses, it was expected that the Queen would just turn a blind eye. So in a royal marriage (especially back then) I don’t view affairs as a sign of an unhappy marriage. And KoA showed she was happy to pretend the King was faithful. As long as KoA produced a son and a decent sized family Henry would have been happy with her and her work. Yes his eye would still wander, but I don’t think we would have had the history we now had if KoA had fulfilled her ‘role’ in Henry’s masterplan and therefore the marriage would be viewed as being happy.

May 30, 2012
8:57 pm
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Sharon
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Katherine was the perfect wife. She was a princess born to be a queen. Had Henry only seen her in that light, it would have saved Anne, George and all the rest of the lost souls. All the lives that could have been saved had Katherine and Henry had a few sons! If Katherine had borne Henry sons who lived, their marriage would have lasted. She would have been respected as his queen and as the mother of his sons. Kings having mistresses was not a sign of disrespect in Henry’s day. Mistresses were a part of that world. He very well might have found Katherine unattractive as she aged, but he would have had many women to fill the void without feeling the need to get himself a new wife. Katherine didn’t seem to mind his mistresses. She looked the other way. She would have expected him to have mistresses.
Still, it makes me wonder what other mischief he would have gotten himself into?

May 30, 2012
9:03 pm
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Louise
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Sharon said

Katherine was the perfect wife. She was a princess born to be a queen. Had Henry only seen her in that light, it would have saved Anne, George and all the rest of the lost souls. All the lives that could have been saved had Katherine and Henry had a few sons! If Katherine had borne Henry sons who lived, their marriage would have lasted. She would have been respected as his queen and as the mother of his sons. Kings having mistresses was not a sign of disrespect in Henry’s day. Mistresses were a part of that world. He very well might have found Katherine unattractive as she aged, but he would have had many women to fill the void without feeling the need to get himself a new wife. Katherine didn’t seem to mind his mistresses. She looked the other way. She would have expected him to have mistresses.
Still, it makes me wonder what other mischief he would have gotten himself into?

EXACTLY!! That about sums it up.

May 30, 2012
9:48 pm
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Boleyn
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Sharon said

Katherine was the perfect wife. She was a princess born to be a queen. Had Henry only seen her in that light, it would have saved Anne, George and all the rest of the lost souls. All the lives that could have been saved had Katherine and Henry had a few sons! If Katherine had borne Henry sons who lived, their marriage would have lasted. She would have been respected as his queen and as the mother of his sons. Kings having mistresses was not a sign of disrespect in Henry’s day. Mistresses were a part of that world. He very well might have found Katherine unattractive as she aged, but he would have had many women to fill the void without feeling the need to get himself a new wife. Katherine didn’t seem to mind his mistresses. She looked the other way. She would have expected him to have mistresses.
Still, it makes me wonder what other mischief he would have gotten himself into?

Yeah I’m in agreement here with Louise, Sharon.. Lard arse’s Marriage to KOA was a match made in heaven but the stupid twit was too thick to see it. KOA was the epitome of just what a wife should be, actually I’ll re-phrase that she was the epitome of a Royal wife in Tudor times.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

May 31, 2012
2:49 am
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Mya Elise
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Yeah maybe he would of been content staying with Katherine if she gave him sons but in no way would he of been faitful.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

May 31, 2012
12:46 pm
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Olga
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Sharon said
All the lives that could have been saved had Katherine and Henry had a few sons!

Honestly I often marvel at how different history would have been if Katherine’s sons had lived. Elizabeth never being born being the main factor. And it’s almost horrible to think that all of Henry’s actions were “for the best” in the end. That’s not the best way to phrase it but my brain is not working well today.

June 1, 2012
1:12 am
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Mya Elise
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I too wonder about what may of happend if Katherine was Henry’s only wife. Maybe no Mary I, No Elizabeth I, and no Edward. Hmmm….?

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

June 2, 2012
12:31 am
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Bella44
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^ No reformation in England either. At least not at the time and the way it happened. And further down the track English colonies may have originally been Catholic…

June 18, 2012
3:57 am
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Debbie Sue
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Bella44 said

^ No reformation in England either. At least not at the time and the way it happened. And further down the track English colonies may have originally been Catholic…

That is an interesting train of thought.

June 18, 2012
11:08 pm
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Anyanka
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Bella44 said

^ No reformation in England either. At least not at the time and the way it happened. And further down the track English colonies may have originally been Catholic…

Possibly no United Kingdom either…

It's always bunnies.

June 19, 2012
1:10 pm
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Boleyn
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Intersting thoughts here. There wouldn’t have been Charles 1st execution and Oliver Cromwell, James 2nd being kicked off the throne either.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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