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The perfect marriage, or not?
June 19, 2012
6:17 pm
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Sharon
Binghamton, NY
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If Henry had not ushered in his type of reformation when he did, do you think England would have remained Catholic? For how long? Many of Henry’s courtiers were already practicing reform. The books were being smuggled into England. The reformation was sweeping Europe. Reformist’s views had reached Scotland by 1525. With reform all around Henry, wouldn’t he have taken a look even without Anne and Cromwell’s influence? What are your thoughts on this?

June 19, 2012
7:04 pm
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Mya Elise
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It’s extremely hard to say what may of happend, there’s too many different ways that this situation could of panned out. Henry’s choice to break with Rome completely changed everything. Anne coming into Henry’s life completely changed everything, Katherine’s sons dieing completely changed everything….the leading of events that caused Henry’s choice completely changed eveything as we know it.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

June 19, 2012
7:18 pm
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DuchessofBrittany
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Sharon said

If Henry had not ushered in his type of reformation when he did, do you think England would have remained Catholic? For how long? Many of Henry’s courtiers were already practicing reform. The books were being smuggled into England. The reformation was sweeping Europe. Reformist’s views had reached Scotland by 1525. With reform all around Henry, wouldn’t he have taken a look even without Anne and Cromwell’s influence? What are your thoughts on this?

Interesting questions, Sharon. I often wonder this myself. While many of Henry’s courtiers were practicing reformed religion, it seemed Catholicism was still the religion of the people. I am not sure how much the early reform movement infiltrated everday Tudor life, so that last statment could be an assumption? It seemed Henry was always a conservative at heart. It was only when denied by the Pope that Henry split from Rome, since most of his religious policies mimicked Roman Catholicism. To me, Anglicanism is always more Catholic than Protestant in nature.
I feel that any religious change, without The Great Matter, would depend upon who succeeded Henry. I cannot see Mary being anything but Catholic, and if she immediately succedded Henry, England would have remained in the Catholic fold.
However, what if James of Scotland still became King of England (all things being equal)? He was a life-long Protestant. It seems he would change England’s religious policies. But, if the heir was a Catholic, things may have been different.
But really, these are just my rambling thoughts. I am not sure if they even make sense! Confused

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

June 26, 2012
11:36 pm
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Boleyn
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Hmm this is a good question. Sharon you little monkey you like taxing the noggins of us all.
I agree with Duchess about Mary’s reign been nothing but Catholic. But I think that Henry would have looked at the alternitives to do with religion if the Pope had granted a divorce. Henry was quite modern in some ways, but I don’t think he would have changed his religion if his divorce was granted as well. He would have perhaps tolerated the Lutheran movement, as long those who followed it kept it to themselves so to speak.
I also think that Lutherisum, would have started to have gained ground, during Mary’s reign anyway, people wouldn’t and didn’t like having a religion rammed down their throats, and even today that is a real issue. Of course today we all have the right to choose our own religion or way of life without fear of death etc.. because of it.
If Elizabeth was brought up as Catholic and ruled as such, I still feel that James would have succeeded, and that he reign would have been quite terbulant and eventful. As indeed it was, so from that point of view I think we would still have the Windsors on the throne.
It might be interesting to note that Anne of Denmark James’s wife converted to Cathosisum later in life. James was ok with it and allowed her to pratise her religion as long as it was in private and she didn’t try to convert others and especially not influence the children likewise.
Another point worth noting it was said that Charles 2nd converted to Cathosisum on his death bed.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

June 28, 2012
7:07 pm
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Boleyn
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In many ways all of Henry’s wives were perfect in their own way.

KOA was the comfort and confidence builder that he needed, as I don’t think Henry 7th had much confidence or trust in Henry’s abilities to rule England,a reason I feel that Henry 7th named his mother as regent when he died.
Henry married KOA to try and prove to all and sundry that he was ready and old enough to be a man and a King.

Anne Boleyn was the passion he needed but she also brought out his sadistic and jealous side too.

Jane Seymour was the balm to shattered dreams and hurt pride, but Jane also restored his belief, that perhaps things weren’t so bad after all. Dying 12 days after giving birth to Edward would have hurt him but at least he now had a son, who would carry on the Tudor name. It also proved to all the doubters that the Tudor dynasty wouldn’t be just a flash in the pan.

Anne of Cleves (Racks on standby)brought out Henry’s respect, in the sence that she gave him what he wanted I.e A divorse, without creating a fuss.

Katherine Howard She brought out his bitterness, but she was also his last shot at passion. After her disgrace and death he was done with all that and just wanted peace.

Katherine Parr Well she certainly did give him the peace he desired, but she also rebuilt his family and perhaps for the first time taught him how to love his children for what they were and what they could do, rather then what they couldn’t do. She was the oinkment he needed for what was left of his life. Going to France was just his way of proving to K.P and to his people that he was still capable of great things, and perhaps if he had the health and strength he would have given France a damn good hiding, and not just the slap on the wrist they got.

Taking all the merits that each wife had, if he could have found just one woman who had all those traits, he would have had a happy and one wife marriage. England would still be ruled by the Pope and Catholic.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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