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A thought about why Henry grew to hate Anne
August 13, 2011
12:37 pm
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Catalina
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Do you think that maybe part of the reason Henry grew to hate Anne was because he came to blame her for the way he had treated KOA and Mary?  Even if it was only subconciously? Maybe deep down some part of him felt guilty about what he had done, and she was a reminder of that?

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 13, 2011
12:51 pm
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Claire-Louise
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I think so, I think eventually he began to blame Anne for all his problems, as he couldn't admit when he'd done wrong. I often wonder if he resented Anne's initial refusal of him also, and this played a part in his hatred of her.

August 13, 2011
1:00 pm
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Catalina
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He maybe realised that if she had given into him, he would likely have grown bored of her, and the break with Rome may never have had to happen.  So for that reason, it's feasible he resented her for that.  I think as well that the fact that Anne was never popular, and never really came to be accepted as Queen really ate away at him.  I think Henry cared a lot about what people thought of him, and I think the fact that she was never popular demonised her further in his eyes as it made him feel foolish.

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 13, 2011
1:13 pm
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Nutmeg
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I think that could well be. And not only because of the way he treated Katherine and Mary. He let his friend and mentor Thomas More go to the scaffold in his quest for supremacy over the church – in order to be able to marry Anne.

Anne let poor Henry down in not producing the male heir he craved for, and I am quite sure, that his disappointment turned into anger.

August 13, 2011
1:18 pm
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Catalina
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I really feel for Anne, being pregnant should have been a time of great joy and happiness for her, but she must have been stressed a lot of the time fretting about what would happen if she wasn't carrying a son.

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 13, 2011
1:25 pm
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Bella44
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Interesting idea.  I think you could well be right – I see Henry as the sort of person who could never be wrong, never admit they've made a mistake and always blames others.  The sort of person for whom its always someone elses fault and people like that always take it out on those closest to them.  Being king (and therefore chosen by God and everything the king did was because God willed it) only made that aspect of his character worse.

August 13, 2011
1:25 pm
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Elliemarianna
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I don't think 'everyone' hated Anne, she was loved at court, and very popular. Maybe she outshone Henry – hence the Seymour… Maybe he loved Anne so much he was jealous of her? An obsessive love can often turn to a violent hate.

"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.

August 13, 2011
1:26 pm
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Claire-Louise
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Catalina said:

He maybe realised that if she had given into him, he would likely have grown bored of her, and the break with Rome may never have had to happen.  So for that reason, it's feasible he resented her for that.  I think as well that the fact that Anne was never popular, and never really came to be accepted as Queen really ate away at him.  I think Henry cared a lot about what people thought of him, and I think the fact that she was never popular demonised her further in his eyes as it made him feel foolish.


definitely! very well put Catalina Smile

August 13, 2011
1:27 pm
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Catalina
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Elliemarianna said

An obsessive love can often turn to a violent hate.


True, there's a thin line as they say

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 13, 2011
1:31 pm
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Catalina
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Claire-Louise said:

Catalina said:

He maybe realised that if she had given into him, he would likely have grown bored of her, and the break with Rome may never have had to happen.  So for that reason, it's feasible he resented her for that.  I think as well that the fact that Anne was never popular, and never really came to be accepted as Queen really ate away at him.  I think Henry cared a lot about what people thought of him, and I think the fact that she was never popular demonised her further in his eyes as it made him feel foolish.


definitely! very well put Catalina Smile
 


Thank you Laugh

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 13, 2011
8:18 pm
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Mya Elise
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I don't think Henry had any right to hate her nor blame her. Please remember he pursued her. Henry started the whole thing, when she said no the first time even the second or third time he could've turned away and forgotten her and if he really needed to have sex with her that much then i'm sure he could have threaten her life, he was King afterall, right?!

And if Anne was evil and whispered to Henry to treat KOA & Mary badly then he could have then thought it to be wrong and stoped it then, love does not blind you in everything! If she asked him to kill his own mother (If she were alive then) he wouldn't because he'd know it was wrong right then and there and he loved his mother. He i believe, despite his actions, did have some love left over for Katherine and did love his daughter Mary. You can't spend 20 some years of your life with someone then suddenly lose all your love for them.

So, no, if Henry blamed Anne for his actions then he was very sadly mistaken. I find it very hard to believe Anne had complete control over Henry – He did and acted as he wished.

 Also back in the 1500's they didn't have technology so i don't think she had a remote control for him either. Sorry i sound…angry or bitchy, i just get really 'passionate' about this stuff.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

August 14, 2011
1:38 am
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Catalina
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I don't think he was right to blame her, not at all, but I think he did.  Henry blamed everyone else around him for the things he did, never himself. One of his biggest flaws.

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 14, 2011
1:39 am
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Catalina
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double posted

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 15, 2011
11:31 am
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Sharon
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 Typical Henry may have hated Anne for the way KOA and Mary were treated.  Nothing was ever his fault.  Yet, even after Anne was gone, he continued to punish Mary.  In Henry's mind that was probably Anne's fault too.

  I think Henry may have tired of Anne, as he seemed to tire of all those around him.  He started looking for another woman.  When he found Jane, and started comparing Anne's volatile pesonality to the meek and mild personality of Jane, he began to dislike Anne.  Eventually that dislike became hate.  How else could he deal with getting rid of Anne.  He had to make himself hate her.  

There was a time when I was determined to get rid of one of my boyfriends cuz he was an all-around jerk.  I kept reminding myself of the mean things he had said or done to me.  Eventually I hated him.  Made life easier.  No, I didn't kill him.

August 15, 2011
1:09 pm
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Louise
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I'm not sure whether Henry did actually come to hate Anne. Hate is a strong emotion. I think he had come to a point where she no longer pleased him for a number of reasons; no son, losing her youth and vibrancy, her jealousy and temper, his increasing attachment to Jane Seymour? I think there was a combination of reasons, but I'm unsure whether he thought in terms of hate. I wonder whether it was actually worse than that. Did he just let her die because it suited his purpose? And when you come to think of it, isn't that even worse? Not killing for hate, but killing for indifference.

August 15, 2011
7:02 pm
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Mya Elise
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Well whatever it was, he sure felt some bad emotion to bring himself to kill her.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

August 15, 2011
7:53 pm
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Anyanka
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Sharon said:

 Typical Henry may have hated Anne for the way KOA and Mary were treated.  Nothing was ever his fault.  Yet, even after Anne was gone, he continued to punish Mary.  In Henry's mind that was probably Anne's fault too.


Exactly, he had to subdugate Mary even when both KoA and Anne were dead. Just to  prove he was right.

It's always bunnies.

August 15, 2011
8:03 pm
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Anyanka
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Sharon said:

There was a time when I was determined to get rid of one of my boyfriends cuz he was an all-around jerk.  I kept reminding myself of the mean things he had said or done to me.  Eventually I hated him.  Made life easier.  No, I didn't kill him.


I had a “friend” like that. well I thought she was a friend but really she was a toxic special snowflake queen of b!tches. I felt soooo much better when I started to push her out of my life…we worked together so I had to tolerate her for those hours together..

It's always bunnies.

August 16, 2011
5:58 am
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Louise
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Mademoiselle Mya said:

Well whatever it was, he sure felt some bad emotion to bring himself to kill her.


I agree, but I don't think you necessarily need to hate a person to kill them, or have them killed. All you need to be is a selfish, callus egotistical tyrant who puts themselves above the life of a woman they had once adored. I wonder whether he did have to 'bring himself to kill her', or whether he found it easy, not because he hated her, but because he was too shallow to give a thought for her above that of his own happiness and well being?  

August 16, 2011
9:00 am
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Sharon
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Louise said:

Mademoiselle Mya said:

Well whatever it was, he sure felt some bad emotion to bring himself to kill her.


I agree, but I don't think you necessarily need to hate a person to kill them, or have them killed. All you need to be is a selfish, callus egotistical tyrant who puts themselves above the life of a woman they had once adored. I wonder whether he did have to 'bring himself to kill her', or whether he found it easy, not because he hated her, but because he was too shallow to give a thought for her above that of his own happiness and well being?  


 Oh, Louise, That saddens and disturbs me more than if he hated her.  I'm not sure which is worse, his hating Anne or his being utterly and completely indifferent to the point where his killing her meant nothing to him. 

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