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A thought about why Henry grew to hate Anne
August 16, 2011
9:20 am
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Catalina
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I think there had been too much love and passion between them for Henry to have only felt indifference for her. But I understand where you are coming from .

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 16, 2011
10:04 am
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Louise
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Sharon said:

Oh, Louise, That saddens and disturbs me more than if he hated her.  I'm not sure which is worse, his hating Anne or his being utterly and completely indifferent to the point where his killing her meant nothing to him. 


Sorry, Sharon, but if it were true then you're right, it would be worse. If it's any consolation I'm not entirely convinced of my own argument. It's really just a thought based on how shallow I think Henry was. 

August 16, 2011
10:30 am
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Elliemarianna
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I think Henry still loved Anne in some way, but his love for her wasn't unconditional, so when she broke the conditions – not having a son, for example – she was doing him wrong, so to speak. The way he wished to be completely rid of her, never to hear about her again, never to see her face, smacks of denial to me. I think he willed himself to hate her, when in reality he didn't. He was obsessed with her, but obsession is never healthy, especially in a relationship – His obsession for her was a violent one, and he wanted her so badly, he wanted her dead, as that was the only way no one else could possess her.

Above all he wanted a son, more than he wanted Anne, and Jane was easy and less stressful to deal with.

"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.

August 16, 2011
2:49 pm
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Claire-Louise
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Elliemarianna said:

I think Henry still loved Anne in some way, but his love for her wasn't unconditional, so when she broke the conditions – not having a son, for example – she was doing him wrong, so to speak. The way he wished to be completely rid of her, never to hear about her again, never to see her face, smacks of denial to me. I think he willed himself to hate her, when in reality he didn't. He was obsessed with her, but obsession is never healthy, especially in a relationship – His obsession for her was a violent one, and he wanted her so badly, he wanted her dead, as that was the only way no one else could possess her.

Above all he wanted a son, more than he wanted Anne, and Jane was easy and less stressful to deal with.


I think obsession sums up how Henry felt towards Anne, a very unhealthy, dangerous obsession. Elliemarianna, you put it perfectly when you say 'that was the only way no one else could possess her'. Henry could not bear the thought of Anne with someone else-so much so, that he would rather kill her. It makes me shudder thinking about it Frown

August 16, 2011
3:34 pm
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Mya Elise
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So Anne was doomed the moment Henry laid eyes on her? Once he became even remotely interested in her …that was it. Bam! there's her destiny. This is why i pity her more than anything because once her presence was known The Henry and once she said the 1st one, that was it for her. So sad. Frown

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

August 17, 2011
12:18 am
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Sophie1536
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I don't think he hated her I think he just got tired of her, he wanted a son so desparately and she couldn't give him one.

I think towards then end he just got completely sick of her but I feel personally it wasn't hate, think that's alot of film stuff. Henry wanted and needed a way out.

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August 22, 2011
3:31 am
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E
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I think it turned to hate because Anne was not afraid to point out that things were his fault- she was honest with him. And how he hated to be held accountable!

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

August 22, 2011
12:29 pm
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Bella44
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I agree E – I think out of all his wives, Anne was the most honest and truthful and not afraid to take Henry to task on occasion.  And Henry was not used to people disagreeing with him.  The very things that attracted him to her in the first place weren't so attractive after they were married.  And Anne made the mistake of being true to herself and didn't just put up with something that she didn't see as fair.  In Henrys' mind someone who was at least as strong as himself (if not more so) was always a threat.

August 22, 2011
2:43 pm
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Boleynfan
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Claire-Louise said:

I think so, I think eventually he began to blame Anne for all his problems, as he couldn't admit when he'd done wrong. I often wonder if he resented Anne's initial refusal of him also, and this played a part in his hatred of her.


Just like the English people blamed Anne for all of their problems (Bad weather = the Queen is a witch who has cast a spell making bad weather!). How horrible.

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 22, 2011
11:18 pm
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Elliemarianna
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Boleynfan said:

Claire-Louise said:

I think so, I think eventually he began to blame Anne for all his problems, as he couldn't admit when he'd done wrong. I often wonder if he resented Anne's initial refusal of him also, and this played a part in his hatred of her.


Just like the English people blamed Anne for all of their problems (Bad weather = the Queen is a witch who has cast a spell making bad weather!). How horrible.
 


Haha I always find it ridiculous how us English complain about our weather so much, considering it rains most of the time. You'd think we would be used to it by now. A lot of illegal immigrants left because it was too cold for them…

"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.

August 23, 2011
5:58 am
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Boleynfan
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Haha I suppose (and I don't live in England, I just visit as frequently as possible!) it never gets better, does it?

But I agree with Elliemarianna and Catalina. Henry had loved Anne too ragingly and passionately to feel indifference, in my opinion. I think that the line between hate and love is sometimes blurred, and Henry felt that Anne had wronged him by not having a son. Then, when she supposedly “betrayed” him with other men, he willed himself to think it was so because he was already angry, plus the fact that his manhood and virility were what he was proud of as well as what he was unsure of and touchy about. So he was more than ready to believe that of her.

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 24, 2011
3:22 am
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E
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Was the son she miscarried a bit deformed? Is there any evidence to back that? I just thought Henry would never accept responsibility that a child like that could be fathered by himself- so it would feature as “proof” that Anne had betrayed him…

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

August 24, 2011
8:49 am
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Sharon
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The child was not deformed. This fabrication comes from Nicholas Sander. (40 years after the fact) There was no mention of a deformed fetus at the time it happened.  Not even during Anne's downfall was there mention of such a thing.

August 24, 2011
9:04 am
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Catalina
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I wonder why Retha Warnicke treats it as fact.  Also, does anyone know:  who is the victim of the murder that Anne is 'clearly' guilty of (according to PG)

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 24, 2011
1:51 pm
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Louise
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Catalina said:

I wonder why Retha Warnicke treats it as fact. 


 

Warnicke treats it as fact because it fits in with her pre-conceived theory, i.e. deformed foetus/homosexual circle. She's based a whole career on treating it as fact. Do I sound cynical? If so…good!

August 24, 2011
4:41 pm
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Mya Elise
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I think people really believed Anne tried to poison Bishop Fisher and during the poisoning i think three other men died. Um but i'm not exactly certain on the murder PG says she was 'clearly' guiltly of.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

August 24, 2011
10:05 pm
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Anyanka
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Mya-Elise. said:

I think people really believed Anne tried to poison Bishop Fisher and during the poisoning i think three other men died. Um but i'm not exactly certain on the murder PG says she was 'clearly' guiltly of.


I don't think PG does either….Laugh

It's always bunnies.

August 24, 2011
11:03 pm
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Catalina
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Anyanka said:

Mya-Elise. said:

I think people really believed Anne tried to poison Bishop Fisher and during the poisoning i think three other men died. Um but i'm not exactly certain on the murder PG says she was 'clearly' guiltly of.


I don't think PG does either….Laugh
 


Lol!

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 25, 2011
5:06 pm
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Mya Elise
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Haha yeaaah PG obviously does not. She never said a name so she doesn't know what she's talkin about… but wait we already knew that ! Wink

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

August 25, 2011
6:51 pm
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Anyanka
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*gigglesnort*

It's always bunnies.

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