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9:42 pm
January 9, 2010
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Hope I'm putting this in the right place…
Adding on from a discussion about Anne's portrait in the NPG, I just remembered in G W Bernards 'Anne Boleyn: Fatal Attractions he mentions in an appendix that the NPG are undertaking something called the Making Art in Tudor Britain project. Many of the Tudor portraits are to be put through intensive technical study, including dating and identification and Anne's portrait was due to be examined this year, so I imagine that's why she's not on display at the moment! Bernard also says there have been claims recently that the picture of Anne isn't Anne at all but Henry's sister Mary Tudor with the 'B' necklace standing for Brandon and a lot of the portraits (especially ones made after the sitters lifetime) have also been misidentified. I can't quite see Anne suddenly turning into Mary myself but the NPG project may still throw up some surprises!
I was lucky to have visited the NPG way back in '97 so I got to see Anne, Catherine of Aragon, Edward, Mary Tudor, Cranmer, Mary Queen of Scots and the Ditchley portrait of Elizabeth amongst others. It was at the same time that the portrait that was once thought to be Lady Jane Grey had just been re-identified as Catherine Parr, but it wasn't on display. And I so wanted to see it!
1:50 pm
January 9, 2010
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Was that the Delaroche exhibition of Lady Jane? I would love to go to that – grrr, sometimes it sucks being stuck on the other side of the world!!!!!!
2:24 am
September 14, 2010
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Talking about the NPG… has anyone been to Concealed and Revealed: The Changing Faces of Elizabeth I this summer? Did you like it? Everytime I go to London I visit the Tudor Gallery at the NPG, and this temporary exhibition was a great discovery. I had read about it on the newspapers, and I thought it was going to be bigger (located in a special room) however, I loved it! This was my favourite: 
Much suspected by me, nothing proved can be. (Queen Elizabeth I)
3:43 am
August 12, 2009
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MoonandStars, did it have anything by the portrait itself, talking about how they changed the snake in her hand to a posy of flowers?
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
2:56 pm
August 3, 2010
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This is slightly off-topic but about Tudor portraits: has anyone (MoonandStars, since you’re from Spain??) seen the portrait of Mary I in Madrid? I believe it’s at the Prado, and it’s breathtaking to see in my opinion. Just seeing the real live picture of her, thinking “she saw this picture…Holbein saw this picture…” Wow. And it’s even more amazing to see a portrait of a favorite Tudor!! (For instance, I saw Anne Boleyn’s portrait and tears came to my eyes, and I was completely overwhelmed 
)
"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"
5:34 am
September 14, 2010
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Impish_Impulse, they didn’t say anything about how they changed the snake into a posy of flowers 🙁 They only talked about their symbolism: for pagans the serpent was seen as wisdom, however for catholics, it was a symbol of the devil. So they suggest that this changing from one thing into the other has to do with these two opposed ideas. They also said, that they found this through X-rays. And a shocking discovery related to this portrait was that they also found that it was painted over the portrait of an unknown lady; and if you take a close look at it you can see her eyes under Elizabeth I forehead, it was amazing!!!! If I find something related to it on the net, I’ll post it here 😉
Boleynfan, unfortunately, I’ve never been to El Prado, but I’ve seen her portrait in some books and on the internet. I agree with you, it’s breathtaking to see. That happens to me everytime I see Elizabeth I’s coronation portrait at the NPG, I love it! It makes me cry! XDD
Bye! xx
Hello again!
I’ve just found this link about Elizabeth I’s portrait:
http://www.npg.org.uk/about/pr…..-press.php
The third paragraph talks about the unknown lady beneath Elizabeth’s portrait. And here’s another picture I found on the net:
Much suspected by me, nothing proved can be. (Queen Elizabeth I)
12:58 pm
August 12, 2009
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MoonAndStars said:
Impish_Impulse, they didn’t say anything about how they changed the snake into a posy of flowers:(They only talked about their symbolism: for pagans the serpent was seen as wisdom, however for catholics, it was a symbol of the devil. So they suggest that this changing from one thing into the other has to do with these two opposed ideas. They also said, that they found this through X-rays. And a shocking discovery related to this portrait was that they also found that it was painted over the portrait of an unknown lady; and if you take a close look at it you can see her eyes under Elizabeth I forehead, it was amazing!!!! If I find something related to it on the net, I’ll post it here 😉
I’ve just found this link about Elizabeth I’s portrait:
http://www.npg.org.uk/about/pr…..-press.php
The third paragraph talks about the unknown lady beneath Elizabeth’s portrait.
MoonAndStars, I didn’t mean HOW they changed it as much as that they did change it. I’ve seen that link before, on The Elizabeth Files, when they did a story about that portrait. It’s here:
http://www.elizabethfiles.com/…..rait/3674/
and says the face under Elizabeth’s is of a lady in a French hood, facing the other direction.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
4:00 am
September 14, 2010
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Impish_Impulse, sorry about that 😉 I didn’t understand you xD. Thanks for the link!
Bye! xx
Much suspected by me, nothing proved can be. (Queen Elizabeth I)
11:33 pm
August 12, 2009
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No problem! And just wanted to say I love your signature!
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
3:55 am
September 14, 2010
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Thanks!! 😉 By the way, what or who does your crest/coat of arms represent?
Bye! xx
Much suspected by me, nothing proved can be. (Queen Elizabeth I)
11:32 am
June 5, 2010
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I wonder if any of you could answer this Tudor portrait question for me. When I was talking to one of the guides at Westminster Abbey back in 2000, and they realized I was a real fan of the Tudors, she told me that at the Dean’s house, in his offices, (I think she said Dean — it’s been 10 years since that conversation) there was a picture of a young Elizabeth as Queen with her hair hanging loose but it had never been made public. I joked about them letting a Tudor fan in to see it even though I knew they’d say no. (Why is it that every time I get a glimpse of or hear about something special it’s always “off-limits” to the public? LOL). Do any of you know what portrait or drawing this might be, and whether it’s on public view now?
MoonandStars and Boleynfan — I know what you mean about being brought to tears on seeing a portrait. I felt that way the first time I finally saw Elizabeth’s coronation portrait in 2005 at the NPG. To finally stand before a portrait that once was going to be auctioned off to the highest bidder (I had nightmares about it ending up in Japan or Moscow or some far-flung location) — WOW! Was totally overwhelmed when I glanced back over my shoulder in that one chamber at Windsor Castle and saw my favorite young Elizabeth in pink portrait hanging behind me; talk about fighting against the stream as I pushed my way back to see it!! 
Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)
2:26 pm
September 14, 2010
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TinaII2None, I’ve never heard about that portrait/drawing. It’s such a shame that it has never been made public 🙁
Much suspected by me, nothing proved can be. (Queen Elizabeth I)
10:08 pm
August 12, 2009
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MoonAndStars said:
Thanks!! 😉 By the way, what or who does your crest/coat of arms represent?
Bye! xx
I bumped the thread where we talked about this. It’s in the Six Wives thread and is called Mottoes. Mine is
‘My’ crest – crown and cross, cat and cinquefoil. The meaning is:
The crown atop the crest is called an ‘antique’ or ‘ancient’ type, that represents the feudalistic/chivalric period that gave birth to the Plantagenets and Tudors. A cat signifies liberty, vigilance and courage, a cross signifies spirituality, and the cinquefoil (flower) signifies hope and joy. Gold is for generosity and elevation of the mind, white for peace and sincerity, blue for loyalty and truth.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
4:25 am
September 14, 2010
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Impish_Impulse said:
I bumped the thread where we talked about this. It’s in the Six Wives thread and is called Mottoes. Mine is
‘My’ crest – crown and cross, cat and cinquefoil. The meaning is:
The crown atop the crest is called an ‘antique’ or ‘ancient’ type, that represents the feudalistic/chivalric period that gave birth to the Plantagenets and Tudors. A cat signifies liberty, vigilance and courage, a cross signifies spirituality, and the cinquefoil (flower) signifies hope and joy. Gold is for generosity and elevation of the mind, white for peace and sincerity, blue for loyalty and truth.
ETA: the motto “Whatever it takes” refers to my battle with breast cancer.
Wow! very interesting! Thanks for the explanation 😉 Regarding your motto I have to say that I’m sure you’ll win this battle! Lots of kisses and energy from Spain! 
Much suspected by me, nothing proved can be. (Queen Elizabeth I)
3:43 pm
June 5, 2010
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Impish_Impulse said:
I bumped the thread where we talked about this. It’s in the Six Wives thread and is called Mottoes. Mine is
‘My’ crest – crown and cross, cat and cinquefoil. The meaning is:The crown atop the crest is called an ‘antique’ or ‘ancient’ type, that represents the feudalistic/chivalric period that gave birth to the Plantagenets and Tudors. A cat signifies liberty, vigilance and courage, a cross signifies spirituality, and the cinquefoil (flower) signifies hope and joy. Gold is for generosity and elevation of the mind, white for peace and sincerity, blue for loyalty and truth.
ETA: the motto “Whatever it takes” refers to my battle with breast cancer.
I just love your crest and the motto — bless you! I’d been wondering about the meaning behind it.
My grandmother suffered from breast cancer between 1980 and 1983 but she lost her battle, but remained strong until the end. Her influence in my life remains with me to this day.
Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)
5:41 am
August 12, 2009
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Thanks, guys. 
There is zero family history of breast cancer, so this just came out of nowhere. But I’m feisty, and I’m going to throw everything I can at it!
Back on topic: Tina, could that portrait of a young Queen Elizabeth with her hair down be another variation of the already publicly shown coronation portrait? I’m racking my brains trying to think of when else it would have been appropriate to depict the queen with her hair down.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
1:19 pm
January 9, 2010
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I don’t think I’ve heard of another portrait of a young Queen Elizabeth with her hair down either. Such a shame you didn’t get to see it Tina – sometimes I think these places keep their best collections away from the public on purpose 
And Impish – good to hear you’ve still got that fighting spirit!
3:10 pm
June 5, 2010
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Bella44 said:
I don’t think I’ve heard of another portrait of a young Queen Elizabeth with her hair down either. Such a shame you didn’t get to see it Tina – sometimes I think these places keep their best collections away from the public on purpose
And Impish – good to hear you’ve still got that fighting spirit!
Impish_Impulse said:
Thanks, guys.
Back on topic: Tina, could that portrait of a young Queen Elizabeth with her hair down be another variation of the already publicly shown coronation portrait? I’m racking my brains trying to think of when else it would have been appropriate to depict the queen with her hair down.
Bella and Impish — this is why I love this group. It’s such fun to talk to you guys!
Bella — I’m with you about wanting to see it. The guide told me about it quite casually, and I was nearly in tears begging if there was ANY way I could see it. The woman could see what a buff and fan I was (this was back in 2000 as I think I mentioned, WAY before Showtme’s series made the Tudors “popular”), but she said it was in the Dean’s office and that was off-limits. I think I said something about it ought to be put out for the public to see and she agreed, but I had loved the way she told me about it in these conspiratorial whispers.
Impish — Off-topic briefly: my grandmother is the ONLY member of our family to have contracteed breast cancer, so we think it was a “fluke.” But that doesn’t mean that it’s a disease I take lightly. I have my mammograms yearly as a precaution. But sending MASSIVE HUGS for your fighting spirit! Now back on topic: I think you may be right. Back in 2000, there didn’t seem to be very many KNOWN portraits of Elizabeth, but more and more we’re seeing them making appearances, especially as they emerge out of private collections. I’m halfway wondering if it IS a portrait we’d seen before or heard of before, maybe even seen in some book. I just don’t know. *sigh* And yeah, I think it sucks about these items being kept private.
Do you all remember when the coronation portrait was owned by some private individual who was going to auction it off?! I wrote him, begging him (yes I knew he needed cash but COME ON LOL) and pleading with his patriotism to please donate it to a museum and write it off. I was so thankful when it ended up at the NPG (is it on loan from the Queen?) so it can be seen by everyone who visits.
Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)
12:06 pm
December 22, 2010
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Touching on portraits of members of the Tudor famly. While in England close to 10 years ago my wife and I were guests of the Duke and Duchess of Rutland. I was in England doing research on my book. The Duke showed us a painting of King Henry VIII, the one done by Holbein, that hangs on the wall in their bedroom at Belvoir Castle. Was I looking at the real painting that Henry posed for…..?? If now, where is the original Holbein painting of King Henry VIII?? The Duke said it was the original, and since the Rutlands were actually an older noble family than the Tudors and were involved with the Tudors often during the Tudor era, why would the Duke not be telling the truth?
I would enjoy knowing from any of you anything that could set this If/Maybe/Could be question to rest…..! If the Duke is correct, why would the Rutlands have this portrait that I feel should be in a place like the NPG…..for all to see?!
5:50 pm
August 12, 2009
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I know there were often several versions of a portrait painted at nearly the same time as the original*, to be distributed about so that people without access to the palace would be able to see their monarch. Is it possible that Holbein did more than one himself? Perhaps as a commission from a noble family with the money to splash out to hire Holbein himself for a copy? Such a portrait would be something the family would be quite proud of owning. Just a thought.
*I'm not saying by the same artist, necessarily.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
