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1:56 pm
May 20, 2010
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Wikipedia comes to the rescue here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O…..d_Ancestry
Relatively few sources survive which tell us about the first 40 years of Oliver Cromwell's life. He was born at Cromwell House in Huntingdon on 25 April 1599, to Robert Cromwell (c.1560–1617) and Elizabeth Steward. He was descended from Catherine Cromwell (born circa 1482), an older sister of Tudor statesman Thomas Cromwell. Catherine was married to Morgan ap Williams, son of William ap Yevan of Wales and Joan Tudor (reportedly a granddaughter of Owen Tudor, which would make Oliver Cromwell a Tudor, a distant cousin of his Stuart foes). Note the Welsh dragon in the Commonwealth coat of arms shown below. The family line continued through Richard Cromwell (c. 1500–1544), Henry Cromwell (c. 1524–6 January 1604), then to Oliver's father Robert Cromwell (c. 1560–1617), who married Elizabeth Steward or Stewart (1564–1654) on the day of Oliver Cromwell's birth. Thomas thus was Oliver's great-great-great-uncle.
Me again. I agree that Thomas Cromwell's execution was pitiful. By the same token, however, do you think that Oliver Cromwell would have deserved to be executed (quickly and mercifully, naturally!) by the Restoration for overthrowing and executing Charles I? I am against the death penalty, at least in the 20th-21st centuries, but I do think that Oliver Cromwell should have exiled Charles I instead.
Yours as long as lyffe endures, Katheryn
6:02 am
February 8, 2010
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If Catherine married a Williams, under English law the family would have become “Williams” but in Welsh Law the family could choose the surname – shich is whee the latter Cromwell got his surname and to be honest “Oliver Williams” doesn't have the “bogenes” of Oliver Cromwell to scare people off. If OC had exiled Charles I he would never have been in a secure position – he was one of the many who signed the petition to have Charles beheaded even though he received an open letter from the future Charles II to negotiate his father's life. OC was one of the very few (although death) was castigised by the later Charles II who, after alife time of roaming round the continent, went back to Britain to become King. Funnily enough, Oc's successor, Richard, didn't have it him in to run a country sop having a dictor family doesn't necessarily work as has been shhown in later times.
Thomas C. played the game although he had seen what had happened to his predeccesors – He must have know that he couldn't get away with it forever and in those days he had powerful enemies who were there ready to strike……….
reminds me of modern business these days – Watch Ryan Air verus easy Jet or Ryan Air verus British Airways
11:21 am
June 7, 2010
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Robert Hutchinson has written a book about Thomas Cromwell. Has anyone read it? I have requested it from the public library system, but am still waiting.
Thomas Cromwell was like so many of his contemporaries who desired to be social climbers and find riches in the process. The idea of him being good or bad, I feel, reduces his humanity. I like to think Cromwell has his good points, but it is hard to rationalise them when on considers his history at the Tudor court. If it wasn't Cromwell who became Henry's right hand man, it would have been someone else.
During Henry's reign, people like Cromwell found a place in the court. Henry eschewed the older, wealthy, and titled nobles, such as the Howards, for people like Charles Brandon, Thomas Cromwell, Cardinal Wolsely, among others. Many of them were synchopants who used Henry to get by in life. But, then again, life in the Tudor era was dirty, short, and often bloody.
I feel most of the antipathy over Cromwell comes from his implicit actions in Anne Boleyn's downfall. But, one must remember, at Henry's court is was to kill or be killed. Cromwell took the latter opinion: his own survivial. As an Anne fan, do I like it? No, but then I must remember Anne's own ascent to the throne, and the blood that was shed for her to be Queen. As David Starkey said (and I am paraphrasing): blood would be shed to end Henry's marriage.
"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn
3:40 pm
August 12, 2009
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DuchessofBrittany said:
I feel most of the antipathy over Cromwell comes from his implicit actions in Anne Boleyn's downfall. But, one must remember, at Henry's court is was to kill or be killed. Cromwell took the latter opinion: his own survivial. As an Anne fan, do I like it? No, but then I must remember Anne's own ascent to the throne, and the blood that was shed for her to be Queen. As David Starkey said (and I am paraphrasing): blood would be shed to end Henry's marriage.
I agree with this. But I believe Henry was aware and complicit, so IMO, the ultimate 'blame' for Anne's fall and death remain firmly on Henry, not Cromwell. And for me, Cromwell falling to his master a few years later goes a long way toward Cromwell paying for what he did to Anne. Yes, he did wrong, but by his death he atoned for that. Henry never answered for his part and that bugs me.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
6:44 pm
August 2, 2010
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Cromwell is a fascinating man. I believe he was the mastermind behind Anne's fall and though I despise him for it, I cannot help but be interested in him. He was able to utterly demolish the Boleyn family and their faction at court within a matter of weeks. It was also very daring of him to even consider doing it in the first place because he ran the risk of having it all backfire on him, which is most likely why he acted so fast and so ruthlessly. It's appalling and chilling that he could turn so swiftly on someone who had once been his supporter and because of the charges he leveled against Anne, her reputation was ruined for centuries. And yet, it is strangely curious that he was able to pull off such a feat.
It does not help that the ever so goregous James Frain played him wonderfully.
