Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSSsp_TopicIcon
Brandon or Boleyn?
November 17, 2011
11:35 am
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I found a picture online and it's questioned whether it's Frances Brandon or Mary Boleyn. To me it kinda looks like the original portrait of Mary Boleyn. Thoughts?

Image Enlarger

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

November 17, 2011
12:03 pm
Avatar
Bella44
New Zealand
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 933
Member Since:
January 9, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Alison Weir in her book on Mary Boleyn asks whether the portrait we'd all assumed was of Mary was in fact Frances Brandon.  Lady Margaret Douglas, another of Henry's nieces was another name she put forward.  This, of course was based on the fact that the sitter is wearing ermine which Weir says only royalty were allowed to wear but there are portraits of other non-royal ladies wearing the fur so i don't know if Weir is quite right on that point.  She also says at one point the portrait of Mary was mis-identified in the past as being one of Anne – that I can go along with as the identifications of Tudor people is such a mine field!  Although I don't think it is Anne, the sitters facial features have very little in common with the NPG/Hever versions of Anne.

What is known about that portrait of Mary is that it dates from at least two hundred years after she lived so if its supposed to be her or not no one can really say.  I like that Weir has raised questions about because there's a very good chance it may not be of Mary at all.  Gah, sometimes Tudor portraiture makes my had hurt – I'll never understand why they couldn't just put the persons name on it!!!!!! 

November 17, 2011
2:00 pm
Avatar
Sharon
Binghamton, NY
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2114
Member Since:
February 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't know if it's true or not but I read an article which was disputing Weir's theory about who could wear ermine.  The person claimed Esquires and their families were allowed to wear it.  The other furs were out, but I can't remember which ones were named.  Mary's husband, William Carey was far enough up the ladder where he and his wife were allowed to wear this fur.  In a painting of Carey, he is wearing white fur.

The portrait issue makes me crazy too, Bella.  Confused

November 17, 2011
6:05 pm
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I also read that only families who were 'more better off' could only wear ermine and like you said, William Carey was pretty important so it seems Mary would be allowed to wear it which is why i questioned whether in this new picture if it's Mary or someone else like Frances Brandon.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

November 17, 2011
8:26 pm
Avatar
Bill1978
Australia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 476
Member Since:
April 9, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Man I'm glad I live in the era and country I do. I can't imagine having arbitary dress codes enforved on me because of my social status.

Is there any reason why portraits weren't named? Is it it because technically the portraits were staying with the family and it would be obvious who they were. It's not like they thought they would ever be passed onto somewhere else or lost.

Forum Timezone: Europe/London
Most Users Ever Online: 214
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 1
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Anyanka: 2333
Boleyn: 2285
Sharon: 2114
Bella44: 933
DuchessofBrittany: 846
Mya Elise: 781
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1
Members: 425802
Moderators: 0
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 13
Topics: 1679
Posts: 22775
Newest Members:
Administrators: Claire: 958