TinaII2None said:

Oh I love Hello Kitty!

Thanks for the smile — I needed it!

 

Anyanka said:

But Darth's such a cutie!

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Bwahahahaha!!!  I don't even like Star Wars that much, but that is just FUNNY!!!

@MegC Not a fan of the sequel, but it was an interesting take on things. My mother told me she wrote a sequel back when she was a girl and had read the book — I don't remember if Scarlett got Rhett back or not in hers LOL

Oh it's Joanne Whalley-Kilmer…or maybe it was Joanne Whalley then. I don't remember when she and Val got divorced.

I wore out my mother's hardback edition and then my own paperback. Then I started reading it online once. I need a Kindle! 🙂 But then I'd probably wear it out too.

Ashley, Ashley, Ashley. I'm glad Melanie did understand him because several readings and Lord knows how many movie viewings later, I just want to kick him in the teeth! After Scarlett marries Frank, he mumbles something about “I should have committed armed robbery to get the money”. Oh yeah — right. LOL

There's a scene that was cut from GWTW because Victor Fleming was trying to play up the b**** Scarlett side and make her look as ugly as possible. (I learned this from reading a behind the scenes book). Remember the scene after Scarlett tells Mammy that she just won't have children again — in order not to get as “big as Aunt Pitty”, and to tell Rhett she's going to stay in her room. Rhett then appears and Scarlett starts talking enigmatically about not wanting more children. Rhett is stunned, likely thinking it's due to health reasons — until he steps on the frame containing Ashley's photograph, and he makes the comment about her having been down at the mill again. <i>There is a scene that was cut that came before what we saw with Scarlett and Mammy</i>. Scarlett does see Ashley at the mill…and the “long-suffering” Mr. Wilkes tells Scarlett that Melanie can't have more children but may still take the chance, as well as hinting that if Melly died, there might be a chance for them! Which is what then would have segued into Scarlett's comments about not getting fat and not wanting to have more children by Rhett. It wasn't vanity had the original scene been included — it was not wanting to get herself tied down should Ashley become free. Ashley Wilkes — dangling over Scarlett, never saying no, never saying yes. Him and his blasted honor. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I had forgotten ALL about Honey! They deleted her from the movie the way they got rid of Scarlett's first two children! LOL But India more than made up for it. But you are SO right about Melanie. She did love Scarlett and took up for her. I think she knew Scarlett's faults and may have recognized things that even Scarlett didn't realize she did. She might have even suspected some truth about the Scarlett/Ashley embrace…but as Rhett told Scarlett, Melly was the type that did love, as you said, unconditionally — and would even go so far as to defend her sister-in-law from BELLE. I may feel more like Scarlett at times, but it's good to have a friend like Melanie when things are rough.

I've just finished Sir Thomas More's Utopia and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I see the basis for socialist and Marxist theories, but they are rather simplistic in origin. However, I feel the whole tone of the story is rather satirical. Many of the social norms and mores of the Utopians are against everything I know about More's own personal beliefs. For instance, the Utopians are religiously tolerant, priests marry, etc. Yet, the book is ladened with misgyony, pro-slavery, too. There are such contraditions in the Utopian society, which I guess is relfective of all societies. I do feel More is trying to exponed some of his own ideas here, but since this is work of fiction, he can step away from claiming he believes it all.

The most interesting thing, and some what ironic, is Utopia has quite lax divorce laws. I guess Henry VIII must have wished he lived in Utopia when he tried to get ride of KOA. More certainly saw divorce differenlty as Lord Chancellor!

My final thought was why write it at all? I have no idea of More's intentions. There is some parts of the importance of monastic life, which seems to be dear to More, and his own religious ideals. Yet, I feel there was more to More than meets the eye.

I recommend reading it. It's an easy read. I read the Penguin Classics and the translation was in modern-day English.

DuchessofBrittany said:

I've just finished Sir Thomas More's Utopia and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I see the basis for socialist and Marxist theories, but they are rather simplistic in origin. However, I feel the whole tone of the story is rather satirical. Many of the social norms and mores of the Utopians are against everything I know about More's own personal beliefs. For instance, the Utopians are religiously tolerant, priests marry, etc. Yet, the book is ladened with misgyony, pro-slavery, too. There are such contraditions in the Utopian society, which I guess is relfective of all societies. I do feel More is trying to exponed some of his own ideas here, but since this is work of fiction, he can step away from claiming he believes it all.

The most interesting thing, and some what ironic, is Utopia has quite lax divorce laws. I guess Henry VIII must have wished he lived in Utopia when he tried to get ride of KOA. More certainly saw divorce differenlty as Lord Chancellor!

My final thought was why write it at all? I have no idea of More's intentions. There is some parts of the importance of monastic life, which seems to be dear to More, and his own religious ideals. Yet, I feel there was more to More than meets the eye.

I recommend reading it. It's an easy read. I read the Penguin Classics and the translation was in modern-day English.

Duchess, I have not read Utopia.  More than likely because I'm not a fan of More's.  When did he write this?  Was it when he was a young man?  I recently read somewhere that More did have a healthy dislike for women.  He did not treat his wives well.  He loved his daughter, though.  He's such a hard man to understand. Funny he should write in his book that divorce laws were lax.  Maybe that's why Henry made him Chancellor.  He may have thought More would be okay with the divorce of KOA.  I always thought Henry was baffled by More's reluctance to side with Henry and to not sign the oath.

Meg — she not only kisses him, but she tells him they should run away together to Mexico!! I wouldn't have followed Ashley Wilkes around the block and back again! LOL (Watching him chop wood and split rails — well, he said he wasn't good at it. He was right!)

I think he was right about one thing. Had the war not come, he would have happily have buried himself away at Twelve Oaks, enjoyed his marriage to Melanie (the stronger of the two anyway), and spent most of his life reading away in the library and playing the country gentleman. I'll give him a slight benefit of the doubt and accept that — on his father's death — he woud have freed the Wilkes slaves; perhaps he already saw the writing on the wall.

A bit of trivia: that scene between Ashley and Scarlett that you mentioned — in another form it had been one of Vivian's screen tests. Onlookers said that the passion was literally sizzling between her and Leslie Howard…but then Howard hadn't been s****ed by the studio yet. I don't think he wanted to play Ashley; felt he was way too old for the role (I'll give him that). But in exchange for being in GWTW, the studio had promised that Howard could also begin work on a couple of projects very dear to him. Didn't happen. I'm nto sure how the contract was cancelled or reworked, but Howard didn't get what he wanted and unfortunately, it reflected back on his Ashley performance. I read that when they reshot the Ashley/Scarlett scene we're talking about, it was like a ghost of the screen test. Vivian was giving her all; Leslie not so much. And that's what we got in the final movie.

Rhett is flawed but I think he was lost to Scarlett from, well, it was either from when he overheard the Ashley/Scarlett “passion for living” interlude…OR when he saw her on the staircase! And he tells her during the waltz that one day he'd get her to say “I love you” to him. Just came a bit too late.

I would LOVE to read it again. Maybe I can track down a second-hand copy. Doesn't the AB Forum have a book club?

Sharon — I love that idea of Scarlett heading out West and becoming a cattle baroness. The second I read it I thought “Barbara Stanwyck and The Furies.” Great movie if you can rent it on DVD. Barbara is another strong-willed woman who helps to run her cattle baron dad's estate (dad is played by the always good Walter Houston in his last movie). She's the son he never had — okay he has a son but Barbara can kick his butt. The only downside of the film for me is Wendell Corey as the Rhett Butler type — not a bad actor but the looks aren't there. You figure Barbara only falls for him because they love to challenge and hate each other! LOL The movie also has Judith Anderson — Walter Houston marries her which is a challenge to daughter Barbara's authority. So in this one scene, Barbara gets SO ticked off with stepmom, well, ou can see a bit of it in the trailer — . Good thing Scarlett never learned knife throwing!

OH! One thing I was going to ask you GWTW fans that read the book. Please, please tell me that I'm not the only one who remembers that Ellen was in love with another man when she was a young girl, and the affair — and her parents destroying it — sapped the life out of her. So the woman Scarlett knew and admired and wanted to be had another side. And Ellen called out Philippe's name on her death bed. I never knew if Scarlett figured it all out or not; can't remember, but I'm pretty sure Mammy was one of the last ones to know Elle's secret.

I thought I'd seen a club on here but wasn't sure if it followed a Tudor theme or not. But if Claire said it was okay, I'd love to add GWTW to my summer reading list, and I do like the Anne tie-in you mentioned. Of course I got an introduction to Scarlett O'Hara several years before I saw Keith Michell in The Six Wives of Henry VIII and Dorothy Tutin's portrayal, but funny how certain individuals (real and fictional) can leave a mark. Here I was — not even 13-years-old — and the women who had already left a lifelong impression on me (whether I loved them or hated them) included Scarlett, Anne Boleyn, Elizabeth I, Elizabeth Bennet, Jane Eyre, Catherine Earnshaw, Lucy Muir (of The Ghost and Mrs. Muir) — and Leslie Anne Warren's Cinderella! (I figure that if you learn a musical by heart when you're a kid, you've been influenced LOL And hey, it was Rogers and Hammerstein).

Glad someone else does remember Ellen's other love — I often get blank stares LOL but I think they're concentrating more on the movie than they are the book.

PS: Just remembered another woman of influence that left a mark, because I used to watch her on TV as a kid: JULIA CHILD (The French Chef)! Along with my grandmother and my mother, she gave me a passion for cooking.

TinaII2None said:

Sharon — I love that idea of Scarlett heading out West and becoming a cattle baroness. The second I read it I thought “Barbara Stanwyck and The Furies.” Great movie if you can rent it on DVD. Barbara is another strong-willed woman who helps to run her cattle baron dad's estate (dad is played by the always good Walter Houston in his last movie). She's the son he never had — okay he has a son but Barbara can kick his butt. The only downside of the film for me is Wendell Corey as the Rhett Butler type — not a bad actor but the looks aren't there. You figure Barbara only falls for him because they love to challenge and hate each other! LOL The movie also has Judith Anderson — Walter Houston marries her which is a challenge to daughter Barbara's authority. So in this one scene, Barbara gets SO ticked off with stepmom, well, ou can see a bit of it in the trailer — . Good thing Scarlett never learned knife throwing!

OH! One thing I was going to ask you GWTW fans that read the book. Please, please tell me that I'm not the only one who remembers that Ellen was in love with another man when she was a young girl, and the affair — and her parents destroying it — sapped the life out of her. So the woman Scarlett knew and admired and wanted to be had another side. And Ellen called out Philippe's name on her death bed. I never knew if Scarlett figured it all out or not; can't remember, but I'm pretty sure Mammy was one of the last ones to know Elle's secret.

I just love the Old West.  I could never get enough of western movies and books about it.  I have western prints hanging in my TV room. I do remember that movie. For the most part, I think I remember Barbara Stanwyk mostly for the TV show The Big Valley.   I wanted to be just like her and run a ranch. I also remember her in a movie Cattle Queen of Montana.  That's where I wanted to live, big sky country.  When I got a little older I studied the western Native American tribes, and found myself preferring their lifestyle to that of the white man. 

I certainly do remember Ellen being in love with someone else.  I have got to read it again cuz my memory as to whether Scarlett found out about Ellen is really fuzzy.  If Claire approves the review, I will hold off on reading War and Peace this summer and will dust off my copy of GWTW.  That sounds like fun.

Meg, I read The Thornbirds, and was tossed between loving it and hating it.  I still can't decide.  I do remember that I couldn't put it down.

Boleynfan said:

Right now I'm reading Mary Queen of Scots and the Isles by Margaret George. I have to say, after The Autobiography of Henry VIII, I expected a little better. It's not that it's bad…it's not…it's just that I don't like it nearly as much. The heroine, Mary, does not appeal to me that much, and her character is not that deeply developed so far. I think the book (again, so far, to be fair–I'm only about 1/4 of the way through it) is slightly tedious and has way too much politics. I know that politics played a huge part in Mary's life, but consequently there isn't enough about her personal life. Anyway, I'd love to hear other people's views on it!

I have read this, and feel the same way.  I have read many books about Mary and at the end of each one, I am left puzzled and wanting more out of her character.  I have come to the conclusion that there may not be more to her.  Her personal life was a mess.  Her political life filled with mistakes.  That is putting it mildly in both cases.  She was told she was a Queen, but she was not trained for the job, and it shows in everything I read about her.

However, you should finish the book.  Maybe you will understand her a little better.

MegC said:

When it comes to tragic relationships (fictional ones, that is), I have to say that, for me, it's a tie between Scarlett and Rhett and Father Ralph and Meggie Cleary in The Thornbirds.

That's another book I can read obsessively.

I have mixed feelings about The Thorn Birds — I never know if I want to hate it or like it LOL I thought the miniseries was pretty good though. But I'll definitely agree with you on tragic relationships.