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The Tudors Season 4 Episode 2
April 18, 2010
11:46 pm
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Claire
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I really enjoyed this episode and my husband's comment was that they're really keeping up the quality and the energy of the previous seasons.

Lots going on, so let's have your comments on:-

  • Kitty Howard and Mary
  • Mary – Had a lump in my throat when she was crying on Chapuys's shoulder
  • Culpeper and Lady Rochford
  • Henry and his leg
  • Brandon's deteriorating marriage
  • The Seymours, Surrey and Anne Stanhope
  • Catherine and Culpeper
  • Anne of Cleves
  • Anything I've missed!

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

April 19, 2010
2:42 pm
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HannahL
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Kitty Howard and Mary- I can sympathize with them both.  At first I thought Mary was a bit harsh and unreasonable, but Katherine was very immature in her revenge.

Mary- Me too!  I never was particularly fond of her until I read Linda Porter's biography on her….now I really sympathize with her in history and on the show.

Culpeper and Lady Rochford- Wow!  Definitely not what I expected, but then again, who's to say it wasn't the way things happened?  I think it's at least showing that Jane had some sick psychological problems going on, and it's building up the tension.

Henry and his leg- Watching the physician drain it made me nauseous!  And I actually felt sorry for Henry at this point.  I liked how they showed his developing mental disturbances, too.

Brandon's marriage- His being haunted seems realistic, and even though the relationship at this point may not be historically accurate, it adds an interesting component to the show and shows that not everyone admired ruthless ambition!

The Seymours, Surrey and Anne Stanhope- I really just see this as a wild card to add intrigue.  And it demonstrates the rivalry between the Howards and Seymours.

Catherine and Culpeper- I think it's quite possible that Catherine was able to be so easily pushed towards him by her misunderstanding of Henry's “indisposal.” If this is true, then Henry was embarrassed by his age and decreasing health and Catherine was feeling lonely, which in my opinion is quite sad.

Anne of Cleves- I love the graceful way she handles herself, both in history and on the show! 

All in all, I'm wondering about the way the whole Catherine situation is playing out. 

April 19, 2010
4:48 pm
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Sabrina
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I think they are doing a good job for the most part, and can't wait to see the rest….

Let not my enemies sit as my jury

April 20, 2010
10:06 am
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Sharon
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Another great episode.  They just keep getting better and better.

Mary and Catherine…I felt sorry for the both of them.

Mary and Chapuys…I was surprised when he told Mary to accept her Father's new wife.  I felt bad seeing Chapuys comforting Mary instead of Henry.  It confirms the fact that Henry was not a very good Father.

Culpeper and Jane…Ewww!!!  Not at all hard to believe she lost it in the Tower.  Seems to me, she lost it way before that.

Henry's leg…for the first time ever…I felt his pain. 

Henry with his Council…Henry losing it.  Those guys didn't know what was happenning. 

Charles' marriage…Other than the moment of levity between Henry and Charles,  I don't see why the show is portraying his marriage as deteriorating. His marriage was a happy one.  One of the few at that court.  I do like the fact that Charles is looking back on his life with regret due to his part in some of the more seedy historical events.

The Seymours…Now there's a group.  What was that with Thomas and Edward's wife?…Yuck!  (Isn't her name Elizabeth in the show?) Edward is one cold fish.  I was completely disgusted by them.

Surrey….Was he really such a mean person?  The way Edward's wife looked at him.  If looks could kill, he'd already be dead.

Ann of Cleves…What a dignified, sweet Lady.

April 28, 2010
6:19 am
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Melissa
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I just caught this episode.  My one comment is that the crew should win an award for the dance scene with Katherine and Anne Stanhope.  The editing and camera work were phenomenal, and how often does one say that about something?  And I'm with everyone else- I heart Anne of Cleves!

Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne.

November 18, 2010
11:30 pm
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MegC
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I'm soooo far behind…I'm having to catch the entire series on Netflix since my husband and I don't have Showtime.  I'm watching this episode even as I type this.

Some off-topic comments: 

1.  Sweet Lord!  I hope to dear God that Katherine Howard wasn't the complete and utter twit that this series is making her out to be.  I can't believe that she was simply this naive and foolish…Sadly enough, I am anxiously awaiting her execution.  She never has been one of my favorites and this series is doing nothing to change my opinion of her.  I have absolutely no patience for people who are twits.

2.  Love the comment Henry made to Edward Seymour about how he used to have someone who could take care of his paperwork and small problems for him.  I have a soft spot for Cromwell–what can I say?

Now–on to the questions:

1 & 2.  Kitty and Mary–Let me say, I have never been a big fan of Mary, but my opinion of her is beginning to soften.  She had every right to be pissed.  At this point, Mary was getting on in years, and here was her father so wrapped up in divorcing a wife or killing a wife or finding another wife that he had never really taken the proper time to secure her marriage.  It must have been incredibly frustrating to her to see this girl who was significantly younger than herself on the arm of her father.  It further illustrates that Henry's only purpose for Mary was to use her as a pawn, but he wasn't even doing a very good job at that.  Perhaps if he'd known that she would one day be queen of England, he'd have tried a little harder.  At any rate, I'd have a hard time taking Kitty seriously, too, at this point. 

4.  I don't think any acting can ever truly express the agony I'm sure Henry was in with his leg.  I'm sure this did not contribute to his mood positively, and God knows the treatment was as agonizing as the sore itself.

8.  Anne of Cleves was simply too good for Henry.  It's a shame he didn't give her much of a chance.

9.  What the crap did Thomas Culpepper see in this child!?  It's just nauseating the way he moons over her and I have yet to find a single redeeming characteristic with the way Katherine Howard is portrayed.  It's like watching my high school students fawn all over each other. 

"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"

September 17, 2013
4:21 pm
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Steve Callaghan
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I absolutely loved David O’Hara as Surrey – a fantastic performance of great nuance which really displayed the contradictions in the real-life Henry Howard’s character. He’s not really likeable at all, yet, for all his flaws, O’Hara-as-Surrey has the air of a life fully lived, a true ‘man of the world’. We may not admire his vanity and snobbery but we’d surely want him on our side in battle, regardless of his passion for risk-taking.

September 17, 2013
5:58 pm
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Boleyn
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I must admit I liked the way Surrey was played, somehow I could just see the real Surrey being just like that. The Howards were arrogant and blustering, and the line that David “O”Hara used in the tavern to the woman is something I could wholely imagine the real Surrey saying.

K.H portrayal just got on my nerves. I seriously wanted to jump through the screen and slap her……….. HARD. maybe with a bit of 4×2, just to hammer the point home.
I don’t believe for a moment that the real K.H was anything like that at all.

I thought the actress who played Mary had got her down to a T, and yes the scene where she was crying brokenheartedly on Chapuys shoulder, did affect me a little. It was almost as if she wasn’t just crying over what K.H had said to her, but everything that had happened since the death of her mother came pouring out. Her father’s rejection of her, Anne.B’s treatment, her submission to her father’s demands, Jane’s death, and her broken love affair with the Bavarian count,it all came pouring out. Brilliant.

Henry’s illnesses well you can see that given the amount the way JRM played the part of Henry’s pain with his legs,to why the real Henry was so bad tempered. Real Henry must have been in agony, but somehow I can’t help but feel it served the fat git right for being such a doodle. (Yeah Steve as subtle as an air raid again)

I love the way they portrayed Anne Stanhope, she certainly showed Bishop Gardiner up for the slimy crawling toad he was.

Anne of Cleves portrayal was wonderful, I truly believe she may have even been like that.

Lady Rochford had every right to become neurotic and have a breakdown, the poor woman had been through hell and back, and to be blamed for something that wasn’t her fault must have been terrible for her. The real Jane Rochford, must have gone through exactly the same trauma. Yes she went on to serve 3 more Queen after Anne B died, but I don’t think she was ever fully trusted by anyone at court again, after all it would have been common knowledge that things that Anne.B had said to her in confidence. I.e Henry was crap in bed, was used to help bring down not just her own husband but the Queen of England too. I’m kind of guessing that woman always viewed her with suspicion in case she overheard something that she would tell to someone else which would cause trouble for them. Hope that makes sence.

Brandon’s marital problems, well I do think he must have felt some regret at having to kill people who were only standing up for what they believed in. The conversation with Darcy’s ghost was quite touching, just as his execution of Robert Aske brought home just how much he had sacrificed to keep Henry sweet. It wasn’t just his marriage he had destroyed but also his concious and his faith.
At least in the series he did have a last bit of hapiness.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

September 18, 2013
2:29 pm
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Steve Callaghan
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I actually found KH to be quite funny, at points, like a child stomping about in her mother’s shoes. The show highlighted how utterly out of place she was, (understandably) without a clue about ‘royal behaviour’. God only knows what Mary & Henry’s courtiers really thought about the King’s lovelife; an embarrassment all-round.

September 18, 2013
4:49 pm
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Boleyn
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Agreed Steve. K.H was really a little girl trying to be a woman. Henry’s love life was just one endless round of very stale jokes.
As Glenda Jackson put it in the series Elizabeth R, first there is trust, then passion, and then death. That was exactly Henry’s whole love life summed up in one short sentence.
Each wife trusted him to love them forever, for a while there was passion, but ultimately their love and trust in Henry meant their deaths.
That trust, passion and death bit also extended to his children.
Eddy trusted his councillors to do what was right for him and the realm until he was old enough to take the reigns of power for himself, but instead they passionately did what was right for themselves, poor Eddy who perhaps was aware of what they were doing died before he could stop them destroying England.
Mary she trusted that the people would follow her lead and surrender once more to Catholic faith. The people passionately opposed her return to Rome. She loved and trusted Philip of Spain and he hated her with a passion, she died a broken bitter unloved by the people Queen.
Elizabeth however trusted very few people, kept her passions under tight reign, and died much loved by all. Elizabeth was the only one who learnt that death would swiftly follow if you surrendered to trust, and passion.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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