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Relationship between Mary Tudor and Katherine Howard - showtime spoilers & Mary hate
April 18, 2010
7:48 am
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Harmony25
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April 18, 2010
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I am wondering what the real relationship between Mary Tudor and Katherine Howard was like. I saw clips on Youtube of Season 4 episode 2 where Katherine meets with Mary to inquire why Mary is mistreating her. Mary tells her it is because she is frivolous and the King will soon tire of her. When Katherine then responds with the question of “If the King found me frivolous, why would he marry me?” Mary answers that it is because he thought she could produce a son and as yet she is still not pregnant – a snub to Katherine. Rightly then, Katherine punishes her by withdrawing two of her maids and says to Mary “I think you are jealous because I am young and married and you are old and not married and may never be.” Then later, when Mary confides in her friend (the spanish ambassador, can't remember his name), she starts crying and only tells him the last part of the story and entirely leaves out her own harsh behavior toward Katherine.

Does anyone else despise Mary Tudor in this portrayl? I think she is intolterant of anyone with different views and has no sympathy for others – despite all of her religious background. Also, Mary is a liar for not telling her friend the whole story of the way she acted towards Katherine which induced Katherine to withdraw Mary's maids from her service.

Is this an accurate portrayl of Mary Tudor? Was she really so hypocritical and a liar?

April 18, 2010
11:34 am
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HannahL
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I don't really despise Mary because she had been through so much and Katherine's very existence must have felt like an insult to her.  However, I do think the intolerance is accurate at least to some extent.  Like her mother, Mary was very stubborn in her beliefs and could be quite intolerant.  That's just my opinion though.

April 18, 2010
5:37 pm
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Sabrina
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Can you blame her for feeling that way?

In the show, her “step-mother” is younger than her, and married to her father. She flounts around with her “Mean Girls” crew, and humiliates her infront of her servants. Honestly, Catherine is lucky Mary did not say EVERYTHING she was thinking. I'm sure she was respectful as much as she could be.

Mary has watched her father go through her mother, Anne, Jane, and divorce Anne of Cleves. I think she understands that her father needs to produce males to continue the line, but as any one of us might do, she's disgusted at her father's mid-life crisis. Put yourself in her shoes, how would you feel if your father married a woman like that? I feel bad for Catherine, but she's bringing a lot of this on herself. If she showed Mary respect like Anne of Cleves and Jane did, maybe Mary wouldn't act that way. 

Let not my enemies sit as my jury

April 18, 2010
8:07 pm
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Bella44
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It's true there wasn't much love lost between Catherine and Mary and I think there was an actual incident where Mary snubbed her new stepmother.  Though it wouldn't have been based on religious differences – Mary was a Catholic to the last and Catherine came from a staunch Catholic family – but probably more personal, Mary perhaps feeling that her father was foolish in marrying someone who was younger than she was.  I have enormous sympathy for Mary, her adolescence had been truly horrible, but she was also the product of the Tudor Court – and could be as haughty and manipulative as the rest of them.    

April 19, 2010
9:00 am
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Melissa
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I love Sarah Bolger's portrayal of Mary.  Personally, I am not the biggest fan of Mary Tudor, in real life or on The Tudors.  However, the writers and the actress are doing an amazing job of showing her character arc.  I may not like her behavior, but since we've seen her grow on the show since she was a child of about 4 in the first season to a young woman now and from everything that's happened to her, you understand her behavior.  I think it comes down to who you identify most with-I naturally put myself in the shoes of the wives and want to punch Mary whenever she's on screen! But if you identify with Mary, it's the wives you want to punch.  And I like that about the show-no one is overly sympathetic (they don't push in your face who you should be rooting for) so you can identify and sympathize with anyone.

Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne.

April 19, 2010
9:21 am
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Claire
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In last night's episode I had a real lump in my throat when Mary was crying on Chapuys' shoulder. Although I rather felt for Kitty Howard when Mary snubbed her the first time, you can see things from Mary's perspective – a young woman without a mother whose been neglected by her father and has had to put up with stepmother after stepmother. She can see right through Catherine and is not impressed! To have to cry on the shoulder of an ambassador rather than your father's shoulder is sad. However, I did like to see Henry taking some pride in Mary and welcoming her back to court.

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

April 19, 2010
11:04 am
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Sabrina
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I know what you mean Claire… It was sad. At least Henry was making an effort.

Let not my enemies sit as my jury

April 19, 2010
12:28 pm
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Claire
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As far as a relationship between Mary and Catherine is concerned, Lacey Baldwin Smith said in his biography of Catherine Howard:-

“It was almost inevitable that Princess Mary and Queen Catherine should have clashed, for they were tempermentally the antithesis of eachother. Mary was like her father–strong-willed, oddly masculine, with a deep, mannish voice and athletic frame. She had all the “inherited pride of a Spaniard from Aragon” conjoined with a Tudor flair for learning. In contrast, Catherine was ignorant of all languages save her own, and even that she handled with the clumsy mentality of a juvenile. The mercurial and infantile temperament of the Queen could have found little to love or admire in the granite determination of a stepdaughter almost 4 years her senior.”

I know that opposites can get on and be good friends but there was the whole stepmother issue. Although Catherine was far from being a “wicked stepmother”, Mary had had to cope with Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour and Anne of Cleves, and she probably thought that Catherine was nothing special and would soon be gone.

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

April 19, 2010
2:27 pm
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HannahL
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Melissa, I like that about the show too.  And I agree that the characters are portrayed well.  Though I greatly sympathize with Mary because of all that she went through, I thought that on the show she went a bit far with her snubbing of Katherine the first time they met.  However, I lost sympathy for Katherine when she went prancing into Mary's rooms and flaunted her newfound power out of spite.  And Claire, me too! Poor Mary.  But I am glad that Henry is trying to be a decent father at this point in the show.

April 19, 2010
8:59 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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Claire said:

Mary had had to cope with Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour and Anne of Cleves, and she probably thought that Catherine was nothing special and would soon be gone.


Well, she was right about that.

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          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

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