How many children did Henry VIII father? | Henry VIII | Forum

Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
How many children did Henry VIII father?
May 11, 2010
9:25 am
Avatar
Sharon
Binghamton, NY
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2115
Member Since:
February 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Mary Boleyn's children – Catherine Carey & Henry Carey.  Because Henry never claimed these two as his, there is a question as to whether they were his.  Both birth dates, however, fall within the time period of the relationship with Henry.

Eliabeth Blount's child by Henry – Henry Fitzroy.  Claimed by Henry.  Named Duke of Richmond.

Katherine of Aragon – Mary. They also had a son Henry who lived a few weeks.  Without looking this up I can't be certain, but if memory serves, she had seven pregnancies.

And of course Anne – Elizabeth

Jane – Edward

No more that I recall.

May 11, 2010
2:50 pm
Avatar
HannahL
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 137
Member Since:
March 12, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Has anyone read the book on the review page called “The Other Tudors” by Philippa Jones?  In her review, Claire says PJ mentions mistresses and children that she had never heard associated with Henry before.  I'd like to read it just because.

May 11, 2010
9:01 pm
Avatar
Nikki08
Texas
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 27
Member Since:
April 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have to believe that it was more than is documented…..he seemed very amorous! And I’ve read that he had affairs with some “ladies of the court”…..

If that is true, and those ladies conceived, I know if I were them(back then), I would have kept my mouth shut and went to the country to have and raise my child in peace…..no one would ever know that Henry was the father……and I’d be honest with my husband(most husbands probably didn’t mind the affair with the king anyway…they probably got a block of land out of it)…..

And yes, I believe that he fathered Mary Boleyn’s children, although why he wouldn’t ackowledge them is a mystery..unless it would have messed up his marriage plans to Anne(too close)…….because if he had a long relationship and no baby resulted, that would have been odd and I think worth mentioning….

May 13, 2010
9:40 am
Avatar
ipaud
Ireland
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 212
Member Since:
June 19, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

“The other Tudors” is a very interesting and frank book. It looks at all the reported offspring and the suspected ones too. It looks at them in a methodical way, showing where some were possible and some were not. Many of Henry's “Lovers” were married women, so having male children with them was not really useful as to claim them would provoke the wrath of the church in Rome. There is an interesting point made though, if Henry was the father of Mary Carey's (Boleyn) children, if one follows the bloodline, we find people like Winston Churchill and Lady Diana Spencer, who later became Princess Diana and mother to Princes Harry and William. Now, if one of the princes were to become King someday….?

Interesting!

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

May 13, 2010
4:15 pm
Avatar
Bella44
New Zealand
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 933
Member Since:
January 9, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I haven't read 'The Other Tudors' yet.  It seems to have been sitting in my to-read pile (small mountain, really!) since forever, so one of these days I'll get round to it!  I didn't realise that Princess Diana was a descendant of Mary Boleyn, thanks for pointing that out ipaud! Strange indeed to think we could have another Boleyn descendant as king!

*runs off to flick through 'The Other Tudors!*

May 14, 2010
7:14 am
Avatar
HannahL
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 137
Member Since:
March 12, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Wow I didn't know that either.  That would be great if he kept up the tradition like you said, wreckmasterjay!  I definitely want to read that book at some point too.

November 18, 2010
4:05 pm
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2337
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ipaud said:

“The other Tudors” is a very interesting and frank book. It looks at all the reported offspring and the suspected ones too. It looks at them in a methodical way, showing where some were possible and some were not. Many of Henry's “Lovers” were married women, so having male children with them was not really useful as to claim them would provoke the wrath of the church in Rome. There is an interesting point made though, if Henry was the father of Mary Carey's (Boleyn) children, if one follows the bloodline, we find people like Winston Churchill and Lady Diana Spencer, who later became Princess Diana and mother to Princes Harry and William. Now, if one of the princes were to become King someday….?

Interesting!


Since another of her desendants was Elizabeth Bowes-Lyons, her blood-line already is on the throne.

It's always bunnies.

November 22, 2010
5:59 pm
Avatar
Boleynfan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 503
Member Since:
August 2, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

What is everyone's opinion about Mary Carey's two children? I'm not sure, but I read somewhere that one of them (for the life of me I can't remember which!!) looked extraordinarily like Henry. Also that one of them was born in a more plausible time than the other. Unfortunately both Mary's husband and Henry had similar coloring, so on that front it's a bit hard to tell. An argument for them being Henry's children is that would Henry have wanted to “share” Mary with Carey? I don't think so. The argument against it…well, Henry had difficulty begetting children, didn't he? I suppose to me it doesn't seem all that likely that he ended up with two healthy children from Mary. Perhaps one??

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

November 22, 2010
9:45 pm
Avatar
MegC
Georgia, US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 426
Member Since:
October 31, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think it's pretty clear that Henry had some fertility issues (low sperm count maybe?).  And I think it's pretty clear that KoA must have also had some sort of gynecological problems–we know that Mary certainly did, and it would make sense if she inherited that from her mother.  This I'm sure explains KoA's difficulty in having healthy children.  

I think Henry's fertility was less of a problem pre-Anne Boleyn so it might be possible for one of Mary Boleyn's children to be Henry's.  I certainly think it's more PROBABLE that one of Mary's children was Henry's since he was younger during that relationship and, thus, less likely to be suffering from more severe infertility issues.  We certainly know that by the time he married Anne that he had started to suffer from periodic bouts of impotence.  I firmly believe that Anne's difficulty in maintaining a pregnancy stemmed more from Henry than from herself, though, Anne was no spring chicken once she finally married and began having children.  

Of course, the finer points of fertility were far from understood in those days.

"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"

November 22, 2010
9:50 pm
Avatar
MegC
Georgia, US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 426
Member Since:
October 31, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Not to mention that, by this point, Europe's royal houses were starting to get pretty in-bred which is NEVER a good thing when it comes to human genomes…or any genomes, really, for that matter.  Perhaps the mere fact that Mary Boleyn was NOT royalty and was introducing some new genes into the pool could have given her an edge…

"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"

November 23, 2010
1:19 pm
Avatar
Sharon
Binghamton, NY
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2115
Member Since:
February 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I tend to think that Henry Boleyn was Henry's child.  Of course we can't know for sure. I wish we could do a DNA test to find out. Catherine is the older of the two.  Henry is the one they said looked just like the king. At this time in Henry's life he didn't seem to have a problem making babies.  His wife, Katherine couldn't carry them to term.  Elizabeth Blount had given him a son (1519) after Henry's daughter Mary was born. (1516)  In his book, Six Wives, David Starkey says, when Henry's lovers gave birth, it was the beginning of the end of their relationship. After Richmond was born, Henry ended his alliance with Elizabeth Blount.  After Henry was born, the king ended his relationship with Mary Boleyn.  He doesn't seem to think Catherine was Henry's.  I'm not so sure.  She seems to have been born in the middle of the affair.  oooo…it's frustrating not knowing for sure.

November 23, 2010
4:29 pm
Avatar
Boleynfan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 503
Member Since:
August 2, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

If everyone had to guess, who would you think his chidlren were?

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

December 23, 2010
2:46 pm
Avatar
David
Mount Vernon, Washington, USA
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 13
Member Since:
December 22, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well lets take this by wife:

Catherine of Aragon:   6, Henry, born January 1, 1511, died on February 22, 1511, Stillborn son born November, 1513,

                                   Stillborn son born December 14, 1514,  Stillborn daughter born January 10, 1510, Stillborn daughter

                                   born November 10, 1518 and Mary, born February 18, 1516.

 

Anne Boleyn:               2, Elizabeth, born September 7, 1533, Stillborn son born January 29, 1536

Jane Seymour:            1, Edward born October 12, 1537

Anne of Cleaves:          0

Katherine Howard        0

Catherine Parr             0

Bessie Blount               1, Henry Fitzroy, born in 1519

Mary Boleyn                1, Catherine, born 1520?

Total                           11 children were born with King Henry VIII as their father is my answer to this question.

December 30, 2010
7:05 am
Avatar
Boleynfan
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 503
Member Since:
August 2, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

What about Mary Boleyn's other child, Henry?

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

January 3, 2011
7:05 am
Avatar
cwen
Southern Hemisphere
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
January 3, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Almost –  Henry fathered two children with Mary Boleyn

 

1.  Catherine

2.  Henry (later known as Henry Hunsdon.

 

I am new, nice to be here.Smile

January 3, 2011
4:23 pm
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2337
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In Alison weir's genealogy  Britain's Royal Families she lists the following issue.

 

By Catherine of Aragon

 

1 stillborn daughter 31/1/1510

2 Henry Duke of Cornwall Jan 1-22 Feb  1511

3 unnnamed son November 1513

4 Unnamed son Feb 1515

5 Mary 18/2/1516-17/11/1558

6 Unnamed daughter 10/11/1518

 

By Anne Boleyn

 

1 Elizabeth  7/9/1533-24/3/1603

2 stillborn child? Aug or Sept 1534

3 stillborn son 29/1/1536

 

By Jane Seymour

 

Eward 12/10/1537-6/7/1553

 

No issue from other marriages.

 

Illegimate children

 

By Bessie Blount

Henry Fitzroy 1519-1536

 

By Joan Dobson( or Dingley)

Elthelreda ( or Audrey) ?-1555

 

2 other names are mentioned as being unlikely to be Henry's

Sir John Perrot

Thomas Stucley(or Stukley)

 

She doesn't mention Mary Boleyn's childrenin the genealogy. Though in her The Six Wives of Henry VIII , she mantions that Henry's lack of acknowledge should be taken as that the children were not his but those of William Carey.

It's always bunnies.

January 4, 2011
6:12 am
Avatar
cwen
Southern Hemisphere
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
January 3, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

http://www.genealogymagazine.c…..oleyn.html

Hi, thanks for the llist, I am familiar with Ms Weirs work – and have enjoyed it,  Have a look at the information on the above link. Primary sources can be helpful.

Its interesting to consider that Henry Hunsdon (Carey) was, by some, considered to be Henry VIII's natural son.  Goodness knows how many others were born on the wrong side of he covers?

Ultimately, its all conjecture because supposition, suspicion and rumours are just that.

 

Wink

January 6, 2011
10:22 pm
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2337
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

cwen said:

http://www.genealogymagazine.c…..oleyn.html

Hi, thanks for the llist, I am familiar with Ms Weirs work – and have enjoyed it,  Have a look at the information on the above link. Primary sources can be helpful.

Its interesting to consider that Henry Hunsdon (Carey) was, by some, considered to be Henry VIII's natural son.  Goodness knows how many others were born on the wrong side of he covers?

Ultimately, its all conjecture because supposition, suspicion and rumours are just that.

 

Wink


http://www.theanneboleynfiles……men/#p5672

 

I've cross posted your link into this thread since we are talking about Mary's children there.

It's always bunnies.

March 25, 2011
4:01 am
Avatar
Toucansandpugs
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 8
Member Since:
March 20, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

wreckmasterjay said:

Just wondering with all the affairs and mistresses he had…..just how many children did he have?

 

Catherine of Aragon – Mary (plus 3 stillborn i think?)

Anne Boleyn – Elizabeth (plus 3 stillborn)

Jane Seymour – Edward

Mary Boleyn – 2 ?

Elizabeth Blount – 1 ?

 

Any more you can think of? I'll be honest, I cant remember the names given to Mary Boleyn's and Lady Blounts children.

These are just my thoughts:

Catherine of Aragon: Mary and a whole lot of stillborn babies

Anne Boleyn: Elizabeth and two stillborn babies

Jane Seymour: Edward

Mary Boleyn: 2 

Elizabeth Blount:1

 

Henry was a womanizer, so he probably had issue here and there in England….

March 25, 2011
8:09 am
Avatar
Sharon
Binghamton, NY
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2115
Member Since:
February 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

A previous post asks why Henry would not have acknowldged Mary's children.  Assuming as I do that they were Henry's, I'm thinking that it was because Mary had a husband and there was no way to prove whose children they were.  Bessie Blount did not marry until 1522.  Henry Fitzroy was born in 1519.  Henry could claim him as his because there was no husband to gainsay him.

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 214

Currently Online:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Anyanka: 2337

Boleyn: 2285

Sharon: 2115

Bella44: 933

DuchessofBrittany: 846

Mya Elise: 781

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 0

Members: 427592

Moderators: 0

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 13

Topics: 1712

Posts: 23076

Newest Members:

DennisDorie, vitushatault, oghmaniusVom, Urocchxae, Puimignog, Emma3456

Administrators: Claire: 959