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January 24, 2013
2:09 pm
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Claire
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I’m often contacted by people who have found out that they descend from a Tudor family and who would like to be put in touch with others who may link with them so please do feel free to share your journeys into the past here.

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

January 28, 2013
9:49 pm
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Ladycat109
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Well, I didn’t want to be the first to post, but I’ll guess I’ll go ahead and jump in! I knew my family as far back as my great grandmother and that was all. That was on my maternal side and I didn’t know my paternal family at all. My mom remarried when I was 4 and I had very little to do with my biological dad. So, a few years ago I felt the need to discover my “roots”. One of the first things I discovered, through my maternal line, was a cousin connection with Martha Dandridge Washington. That blew my away. But pushing even further back, connecting my GGrandmother’s family’s name Pegram with the Macon Family, both of Williamsburg VA, I found the connection with the West family. The West’s were connected to the Knollys, which connects to the Careys and then the Boleyns! Whew! Can I say I was blown away? I was. I knew it had to be a mistake, but that was 3 years ago and it has not proven to be a mistake. All the more amazing to me because as a teenager, I was intrigued by Anne Boleyn. I read everything I could get my hands on. I was always so sad whenever I read about her death. I just knew she did not deserve to die like that. I have always believed that she was railroaded by Henry in the quest for a male heir. And to find out that she is family, it makes it all the more heartwrenching. I would love to be put in touch with other descendants of Mary. It would be great to hear their stories of how they found out they were related and how it makes them feel. And, yes, Martha was a descendant of Mary also!

Virtue Alone Invincible

January 30, 2013
9:08 pm
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Alison
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Common as muck me, good peasant stock and fisher man stock right back from days of yore.

January 30, 2013
10:11 pm
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Ladycat109
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Nothing wrong with that Alison! I always referred to myself as having a “heinz-57” pedigree. Don’t know if you’re familar with that term, but it’s a sauce that has a little bit of everything in it!

Virtue Alone Invincible

January 31, 2013
1:11 am
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Anyanka
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My maternal grandmother was a Welsh born Tudor though I suspect nothing to do with the ones who became kings..

It's always bunnies.

February 8, 2013
3:30 pm
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black_mamba
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I have an Ancestry membership, and I was blown away by what I found! Laugh

On my maternal side, my 6th great grandfather has an AMAZING family tree. On his mother’s side he is related to the some of the great families of England including the Howards! On this side there were also two or three people who were beheaded at the Tower of London. Eek! Then on his father’s mother’s side he is related directly to royalty including King James VI and Mary Queen of Scots! Through James’s daughter, Elizabeth of Bohemia.
On my grandpa’s side, they are descended from Sir Thomas More’s daughter, Margaret Roper nee More!

What was really neat, is on my husband’s side ( I was trying to find his Irish relatives, and ended up finding out he had A LOT of Scottish blood too! ) on TWO different grandparents, they have royal Scottish blood! Mary Queen of Scots is a great aunt, and he is related to ALL Four Maries! He is related to Robert the Bruce TWO different ways! It’s weird how our tree intertwines at certain points!

Genealogy is so fascinating! I remember I was doing some research on another line (I think her maiden name was Woodman) and I was getting back REALLY far to the late 1500’s. Nothing interesting until I got to Nicholas Woodman. He was burnt at the stake on the 22 June 1557 in Corsham, Wiltshire, England along with nine other Protestants!! His account is listed in Foxe’s Book of Martyrs.

You really don’t know what you’re going to find when you start researching your genealogy! Smile

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

February 11, 2013
8:49 pm
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Ladycat109
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Ancestry definitely opens up many avenues that would not ordinarily be available to us to explore. I have found that once you find one of your branches that takes you into one of the better known family trees, it gets easier bacause those trees are so well documented. I, also, have ancestors in the Howard tree, so our families are related Black_mamba.

Virtue Alone Invincible

February 12, 2013
12:31 am
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black_mamba
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Ladycat109 said

Ancestry definitely opens up many avenues that would not ordinarily be available to us to explore. I have found that once you find one of your branches that takes you into one of the better known family trees, it gets easier bacause those trees are so well documented. I, also, have ancestors in the Howard tree, so our families are related Black_mamba.

That’s so cool! My 17th great grandmother is Margaret Wyndham nee Howard who was the daughter of John Howard, Duke of Norfolk, Anne Boleyn’s great-grandfather on her mother’s side. That’s her mother’s grandfather who died at the Battle of Bosworth with Richard III.
I couldn’t believe the history I found out about while researching (and still doing it too!) on my family tree and my husband’s. I learned so much about the Battle of Flodden Field.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B…..dden_Field

In my husband’s tree I there are 11 of his ancestors who died there! On my tree, it’s just three, I believe. But, then, that’s when it sunk in the catastrophe of Flodden Field hit me. So many wiped out.

Then there is my husband’s 14th great-aunt, Margaret Drummond, who was a mistress of King James IV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M…..istress%29

“It has been widely suggested in more recent years that Margaret Drummond was murdered, either by English agents or by pro-English elements in the Scottish nobility. Many believe that James IV was planning to or had already secretly married Drummond, and her death was necessary in order to allow or force the King to marry the English princess Margaret Tudor, daughter of Henry VII of England and Elizabeth of York. The (comparatively recent) plaque on her grave in Dunblane Cathedral claims that she was commonly believed to be “privately married” to the king, and that she was murdered by Scottish nobles who supported the English marriage.

Furthermore, the “Marriage of the Rose and Thistle”, as the poet William Dunbar described it, brought about the Union of the Crowns exactly 100 years later, as it enabled their great-grandson James VI of Scotland to claim the English throne upon the death of Elizabeth I through his descent from Henry VII.

Had James IV married Margaret Drummond instead of Margaret Tudor, the Union of the Crowns might never have taken place and Scotland might have remained an independent country. This idea has been the theme of numerous historical novels and popular histories.”

In the chancel of Dunblane Cathedral are three dark blue tombstones. On the middle stone there is a brass plaque with the inscription “To the glory of God, in memory of Margaret, eldest daughter of John, 1st Lord Drummond, by tradition privately married to King James 4th and poisoned at Drummond Castle by some of the nobles who desired the King’s marriage with Princess Margaret of England. The three sisters were buried underneath these slabs in the choir of the Cathedral of which their uncle Walter Drummond was Dean AD 1501.”

It was in 1496 that Margaret Drummond, by King James’ invitation, moved into Stirling Castle, one of the royal residences. It was around this time that the Spanish Ambassador, Don Pedro de Ayala, writing to Spain says“When I arrived he (King James) was keeping a lady with great state in a castle. He visited her from time to time. Afterwards he sent her to the house of her father, who is a knight, and married her.”

In spite of this letter, there is no proof that a marriage ceremony ever took place. Lord Strathallan, in his History of the House of Drummond compiled in 1681, says merely that the King made “an engagement of marriage” to her. Drummond of Hawthornden makes a somewhat similar statement that Margaret “had been contracted to the King.”

There are records of Margaret’s costs at Stirling Castle from June 9th 1496 until the end of October of that year when she went to Linlithgow under the care of Sir David Kinghorn. Her expenses continued to be paid by the King such as for “Item given for clothes to Margaret Drummond, by the King’s command £91 13s.”

Sometime during the next year Margaret gave birth to a daughter. After her mother’s death she was brought to Stirling and cared for by the King. June 18th 1503, “Item to the nurse that brocht the King’s dochter from Drummyne to Stirling £3 10s.” Margaret Drummond died sometime between November 1502 and February 1503. February 10th 1503, “Item, to the priests that sing in Dunblane for Margaret Drummond, their quarter’s fee, £5.” These payments continued as long as the King lived.

These are all facts, but the cause of Margaret’s death and the reasons for it are more difficult to fathom. Sir Robert Douglas writing somewhat later states “She was greatly beloved by James 4th , who was contracted to her and would have married her, had not his councillors and the great men of the state interposed and taken her away to make room for a daughter of England.”

Perhaps this is true but James 4th was a man who made up his own mind and was not ruled by his nobles. In any case all the evidence is that Margaret was still alive when on January 25th 1502 a proxy wedding took place between the King and Margaret Tudor.

As to the death itself, this took place at Drummond Castle where Margaret was having breakfast with her two sisters Euphemia and Sybilla. All three were taken ill and died later that day. They could have been poisoned but were living at the family home and it would seem unlikely that poison would have been administered by one of their own servants. Food poisoning takes place even today; it is not unreasonable to believe that perhaps it also took place unwittingly at Drummond Castle.

There is an interesting postscript from Queen Margaret Tudor. Writing to Lord Surrey, she claimed that Lord Fleming “for evil will that he had to his own wife, Euphemia Drummond, caused poison three sisters and one was his wife; and this is known as truth in all Scotland.” If indeed it was known in all Scotland only Margaret Tudor saw fit to mention it in writing.”

Interesting stuff, huh? Wink

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

February 12, 2013
12:34 pm
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Ladycat109
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Very Interesting stuff to be sure! And think about the fact that had one little thing happened differently, we, as descendants, might not have even been born! History is so intriqueing in itself, but when you discover that part of your family history is tied into some of the stories that we’ve read about, it is almost mind-bogglling. Sometimes, I’m a little hesitant to talk about it, because I don’t want to appear that I’m smug or bragging about it. I was hoping to connect with others that had made the same kind of discoveries in their families and share what we’ve found. Black_mamba, I’m on ancestry also. Have you taken the autosomnal dna test yet? It would be interesting to see if we match in some small degree. They say the test only goes back 7-8 generations, but if there are a number of matching ancestors, it can still show a match. Here’s my email is you want to talk about our discoveries: ladycat109@gmail.com

Virtue Alone Invincible

February 12, 2013
1:14 pm
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Boleyn
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I guess my only claim to fame is that from my father’s line I am decended to Captain Matthew Webb who was the first bloke to swim the Channel.
My Great Grandfather was a founder member of the boot and shoe trade too. and I doubt our younger members would remember there was a machine he invented that you stood on that measured your feet in many shoe shops. Most of our genealogy is either Scottish or Welsh, but with a little American thrown in too.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

February 12, 2013
5:40 pm
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Sharon
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Boleyn, I remember that machine. There was one at the shoe shop up the street from where I live.
I don’t think you ladies are being smug at all. What interesting backgrounds you have. I”m enjoying myself reading all about your ancestors.

February 13, 2013
5:56 pm
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Ladycat109
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Thank you Sharon for saying you understand. I’m just a regular middle class american who decided to research my family tree. I always referred to my family as a “heinz57” family. Those of you on this side of the pond should know what that means! Basically, it says “we’re mutts”. I knew most of my mom and dads relatives came from the mountains of Virginia. So with the help of ancestry.com and the internet, the pieces started falling in place. On my maternal GGreatmom’s side, the line went back to Williamsburg VA into the late 1600’s. It’s through that line that MB’s line runs. My greatgrandmother’s line intersects with Gideon Macon’s line and the Macons connect with the West Family. The West’s were colonial Governors of the VA. The West’s connect with the Knollys (Anne, daughter of Catherine) and there to MBC.

I remember those foot machines Boleyn! They were very cool. I think they should still use them. It would be more accurate! Aren’t they collectable now?

Virtue Alone Invincible

February 13, 2013
6:32 pm
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KellyMarie
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I’ve never done a background check but apparantly on my maternal grandfather’s side my ancestor is Captain Cook, apparantly family members of mine in Blackburn have his chest, i’ve never seen it though.

I’ve never done a ancestory search but I think I probabnly should since my paternal grandmother came from a wealthy family who last century sold a castle they owned to the national trust, so i’m guesing theres probably some stories to be found there.

Woohoo I'm normal...gotta go tell the cat!

February 14, 2013
3:15 pm
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black_mamba
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Ladycat109 said

Thank you Sharon for saying you understand. I’m just a regular middle class american who decided to research my family tree. I always referred to my family as a “heinz57” family. Those of you on this side of the pond should know what that means! Basically, it says “we’re mutts”. I knew most of my mom and dads relatives came from the mountains of Virginia. So with the help of ancestry.com and the internet, the pieces started falling in place. On my maternal GGreatmom’s side, the line went back to Williamsburg VA into the late 1600’s. It’s through that line that MB’s line runs. My greatgrandmother’s line intersects with Gideon Macon’s line and the Macons connect with the West Family. The West’s were colonial Governors of the VA. The West’s connect with the Knollys (Anne, daughter of Catherine) and there to MBC.

I remember those foot machines Boleyn! They were very cool. I think they should still use them. It would be more accurate! Aren’t they collectable now?

That’s pretty neat! My ancestors, the ones who can trace their ancestors to nobility, were ALSO from Virginia, before they came to Texas. Will definitely send you an e-mail when I get the chance. Smile

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

February 18, 2013
3:29 am
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katherinepitt
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Ladycat109 – you and I must be distant cousins! Thomas Boleyn’s sister, Margaret, is my 13-times great grandmother, which would make Mary, Anne, and George my first cousins 12 times removed(?). I’ve been a Tudorphile since the age of 13 (I’m now 34), and was literally over the moon when I discovered the Boleyn link (I’m sure you know the feeling!). I’ve been doing genealogy for the past few years, but it was a relative in England who e-mailed me with the family tree link to the Boleyns, and he assured me that he triple checked everything just to make sure he wasn’t deluding himself, lol!!!

My sister is living in London at the moment (I’m on the west coast of Canada), and I’m going to visit her for a week in March – we plan on going to visit Hever Castle, I’m just so excited!

February 21, 2013
11:25 pm
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black_mamba
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Welcome Katherine! I’m related to the Howards also through My 17th great grandmother is Margaret Wyndham nee Howard who was the daughter of John Howard, Duke of Norfolk, Anne Boleyn’s great-grandfather on her mother’s side.
So cool to meet other people who are related to the Howard family. I have an ancestry account, and I’m thinking of tracing the Howards back to Edward I. It would be interesting to research some of Anne’s ancestors in the Howard family. I’m such a nerd…. Embarassed

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

February 22, 2013
5:52 pm
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Sharon
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Just being nosy here, but do you guys know when your ancestors immigrated to the New World?

March 7, 2013
1:07 am
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Mavet
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I had a relative that’s really good at researching family trees and she gladly offered her help. I traced my dad’s side back to the Brereton family, and the brother of a direct ancestor of mine was William Brereton. I never would have imagined that I had so many people working in the royal court as direct ancestors – it gives me a new outlook.

March 11, 2013
1:15 pm
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black_mamba
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Mavet said

I had a relative that’s really good at researching family trees and she gladly offered her help. I traced my dad’s side back to the Brereton family, and the brother of a direct ancestor of mine was William Brereton. I never would have imagined that I had so many people working in the royal court as direct ancestors – it gives me a new outlook.

That’s really cool! I believe in Claire’s book, The Fall of Anne Boleyn: A Countdown, she discusses William Brereton and the other men who went to the scaffold in depth. You might want to check that out. You don’t necessarily have to have an ancestry account to do genealogy research. There is a very vast amount of info on the web that is free.
Smile

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

March 14, 2013
6:39 pm
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skystarlit
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I am the 14th great grand daughter of Anne Boleyn and Henry Heydon through Bridget Heydon and my daughter and I were born with genetic Osteogenesis Imperfecta type1. My mother Yell(who is currently obsessing over our family tree) is bothering the heck outta me to post this and ask if anyone here with the Boleyn bloodline also has this genetic condition. Any response would be appreciated.

~Heather Sanders

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