I think part of it was Anne was upset over the Henry Percy affair, part of it was how H8 had treated Mary  and part of it was Anne's own sense of worth.

Am I the only one who thinks H8 would be called a stalker now?

Anne was such a complex person, her intentions for refusing Henry must have been complex as well. I agree with MegC and Anyanka. There were many reasons for Anne to deny Henry sexual relations. While her virginity and virtue where part of the package deal of marriage, Anne had much to gain by saying no to Henry. She could avoid the pitfalls of being Henry's mistress: used and cased aside. Being his wife, Anne was in a different position. One she hoped enabled her control over religious reform and to be mother of a future King. 

Anne was an intelligent women. I am sure many of her decisions were stragtegised, and played out when they were to her benefit. Now, I do not want people to think I disagree with Anne's refusal of Henry, I am simply trying to express her need to do so, and the necessity of calculated moves.

Much of this was about self-preservation and pride. If I were in Anne's position, I would have done anything to better my position, and that of my family. Falling easily into bed with Henry did not garner respect or lengthy relationship. Anne was positioning herself as different from other women at court, and these differences were what made her a star.

DuchessofBrittany said:

Anne was such a complex person, her intentions for refusing Henry must have been complex as well. I agree with MegC and Anyanka. There were many reasons for Anne to deny Henry sexual relations. While her virginity and virtue where part of the package deal of marriage, Anne had much to gain by saying no to Henry. She could avoid the pitfalls of being Henry's mistress: used and cased aside. Being his wife, Anne was in a different position. One she hoped enabled her control over religious reform and to be mother of a future King. 

Anne was an intelligent women. I am sure many of her decisions were stragtegised, and played out when they were to her benefit. Now, I do not want people to think I disagree with Anne's refusal of Henry, I am simply trying to express her need to do so, and the necessity of calculated moves.

Much of this was about self-preservation and pride. If I were in Anne's position, I would have done anything to better my position, and that of my family. Falling easily into bed with Henry did not garner respect or lengthy relationship. Anne was positioning herself as different from other women at court, and these differences were what made her a star.

I think you just expressed my own thoughts too.Anne was intelligent,proud and given her upbringing,she was definitaly ambitious.She seemed keen on learning and perfecting her skills.Anne aimed higher (Henry Percy for example) for she knew what she was worth for!Also,she had seen first hand how things were for a girl after a royal affair.She knew how the Boleyns and Howards worked.While Mary was the King's mistress,no one dared speak,whether they approved or no.When the affair was over,we all know how things went for Mary and her children.And don't forget the fact that after Mary's affairs in the french court,she married a man beneath her station.Anne was an aspiring courtier and it was only normal that she would look forward to a more advantageous marriage than Mary's.Here enter Henry.She knew first hand that should she consent to become his mistress,then all her chances of marriage were ruined and should she have any children,any sons,they would be considered bastards and in fact bastards beneath other bastards(Blount's son).Anne was a proud woman and quite the “all or nothing” type.And although I think Anne as a moral person,this I think had more to do with pride and self-preservation than morals(after all,no wife of Henry had the luxury to act based on morality,they acted mainly on self-preservation).My understanding of her character,also makes me think that Anne might have been offended by Henry's approach and acted this way,because it does seem like an insult his thinking that all Boleyn women were loose and easy.Don't forget that it was too early for Anne to act upon this way to usurp Katherine's place,so at first I believe it had nothing to do with strategies.If later she used it as a strategy,it is understandable and logical for me.But to use it in the begining,no no.It would have been stupidly hopefull from her part to expect anything in the begining where Henry was interested only in getting her as a mistress.So,my belief is that Anne's refusal in the begining was a statement of pride,inteligence and even some good natured arrogance(believing that she could do more than a King's fling).She was propably offended too by Henry's treatment of her family,aware of the wolfs in her family and mostly,aware of her worth and the world she lived in.

Another thing that came to me was that we sometimes tend to forget that at the time,Anne was a young girl/woman (for both birthdates) so I think her refusal might have to do also with Anne's innocence.We are so used to Anne either being the great politician,the fame fattale or the planner(after all,we have seen many times the same version of Anne planning to attract Henry)that we forget that once Anne was a young and more naive and romantic girl.I mean we are focused on what is known for her that we forget that maybe she had the same feelings we,especially the ladies in this forum had,have and will have in the future at very hard times.We know how she was fond of court love,so seems like a romantic and one more into romance than carnal relationships(Henry's many letters seem to say that his lady did love her pampering and harmless affection).Also,Anne wanted to make something of her fortune and gifted personality and had suffered by her sister's reputation.Anne at that point might still have feelings for Henry Percy,a man she considered to marry and now,left and even a little disgraced(as any woman left would feel,especially at that pit of snakes the court was),ashamed of her sister's reputation.And then here comes Henry thinking he can have his way with both Boleyn girls.She would feel disgusted and angry at his behavior.Also,if for every girl it is a delicate matter her virginity,imagine being in Anne's place(or any woman's place back then,where chastity was the most important factor for marriage)!Anne,after Mary had to prove she was different,that she stood higher in morals and chastity,to have a better future,after all,she didn't love Henry,had no chance to marry Henry… And Sharon,you are right,Henry was the calculating one.I mean,both Boleyn girls were highly attractive and he already had one.If I were Anne,not only I would be aware of what happened to Mary but also offended by his motions.I find it offensive that he treated the Boleyns as if their daughters were prostitutes and I believe Anne's standing had a lot to do with the fact that she was actually defending her family's name partly and her own honour.Closing,I would have to say that Anne didn't say no in order to marry Henry for if until 1533 it was in negotiations(and by then Henry asked her to marry him)then in early 1525(correct me if I'm wrong),when Henry was looking only for a way into her bed it would have been optimistic in the borders of stupidness for Anne to even fathom the fact that if she says no,then she would become Queen.Later,many things happened,mainly Henry falling in love and Katherine reaching menopause,which might make her think that not only she could become Queen but that this might have been her destiny(after those,I think it might have been a mutual decision to refrain from intercourses as she would become Queen)…Also,Sharon,I agree with you although I didn't put my thoughts exactly written and I didn't get my meaning across effectively.My meaning was that Anne was a moral woman,in fact that was one of her winning points with Henry,not strategies.Anne stood by the rules for young women and had a sence of honour and a need to make her family proud.Those are qualities of a moral person.In my opinion,if you measure the reasons why she said no,I think bigger part was her sense of selfworth,her awareness and even her pride(not in a bad way,in a way that every human being must have)who told her that she was for better things than a one night company.Those were some of her morals of course,for if they weren't she would just make the most of it,as other women would do.

Yes, didn't Wolsey assume Henry had a French Princess in mind?

I think the only person who withheld to become queen was Jane Seymour–we all know she played that game.  AoC didn't get any at all, and KH clearly didn't hold back anything–which is probably what ultimately won her the throne.

Boleynfan said:

Four, (this is perhaps one people won't agree with) I think Anne had morals about sleeping with Henry. My guess is that she felt that she couldn't betray Percy by doing this so soon after their love affair.

I think that's actually a really clever take on the situation! I've never thought of that before. I could easily see a woman denying another man because of feelings she still carried for another. I think Anne's original refusal of Henry was a mix of many things, as was already said Anne was a complex woman with complex plans. I don't think however that she set off from the start thinking she could convince Henry to make her Queen, I think that over time she did begin to care for him and the idea arose from not wanting to end up thrown away like Mary and Bessie.

I personally just find it hard to believe when people (authors especially) try to paint Anne as this solely ambitious woman who only cared for her own personal/family gain. I'm sure the thought crossed her mind of how high she could rise on many occasions (I mean come on, it would cross your mind too!) but I can't see a woman fighting for so long to be with a person who she didn't really care about in the first place. Especially with how passionate Anne was. I think she came to truly love King Henry, especially after how hard he fought to have her when Henry Percy simply accepted the refusal.

Boleynfan said:

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Chrystinamarie. I mean, come on, we all love Anne for her ambition, but that was not 100 percent of her character! And I think the point you made about Anne being too passionate to fight for so long to be with someone she didn't love is true. It is proven that Anne truly believed in love and wanted to be with someone: she risked a lot to be with Henry Percy, such as soiling her reputation.

I just wanted to add after reading your post Boleynfan is that few people would ever challenge certain other historical figures.. For example, I doubt people would argue that KOA was not in love with Henry when she fought tooth and nail to save her marriage, or that she was not really a devout Catholic, and not simply using her faith for political gain. I am just using KOA as an example; there are plenty of other historical figures out there who fit the bill.

It seems  Anne is always under suspicion. Every action she took was always suspect from her religion to her committment to Henry. Anne became the Messalina of the Tudor period, always blamed for everything wrong. I guess she was an easy target, and it was simpler to attack personal feelings (which cannot be qualified), rather than really understanding where she was coming from.

Boleynfan said:

You're exactly right, DuchessofBrittany. Even in Tudor times, everything was blamed on Anne because it was easier to blame that on her than blame it on, for example, oneself. For instance, many commoners in England would blame bad weather on her, saying it was “the witch's doing.” And Henry himself blamed her witchery not only on his lust and love for her, but for the ulcer on his leg and the unfortunate lack of sons.

Even now, if you walk up to someone who knows the basic idea of the Tudors but not much more, I guarantee they'll be on the side of KoA or just say, “well Anne was pretty mean, right? And KoA was so religious and good!” And Anne wasn't religious? Some people (not many, but it's still a theory) call her a martyr!! (Claire wrote a post on this I believe.) While I don't believe she was a martyr, she fought tooth and nail for the blossoming Protestant religion, and who best to persuade King Henry than his beloved Anne?

I think that Claire's motto, “Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn,” is fantastic, because there are so many myths about her: the wh*re, the witch, the poisoner… And very few of those myths are true, as is the habit with myths.

Well said, Boleynfan. I get so annoyed when Anne is immediately the villian in all things.  I guess people, even in Tudor times, were terrified of a woman who could think for herself!

I also find blaming Anne for everything that went wrong removes all blame from Henry. He was the problem and his intentions are the ones that should be seriously reconsidered. Heck, even historians argue that we should take Henry's intentions (anulling his marriage to KOA, creating the Church of England, etc) as truth. Well, why cannot the same respect be bestowed on Anne as well. Mind, we've come a long way in better understanding Anne, but there is still much work to be done! Just my opinion, though…