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Anne Boleyn
July 18, 2013
1:02 pm
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tudor fan
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Hey everyone I was wondering if you would all be on this site or would it even be here if Anne had a son?
What is it that intrests you so much about Anne Boleyn ? Is she just ‘famous’ because of her downfall and death
Would she be of less intrest if she survived?
Thanks guys

July 22, 2013
8:30 pm
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trollins
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For me Anne is way more than how her story ended. The most fascinating part is how is began. She had amazing strength and courage and was a great example of how a woman could stand up for what she believed. She may have been used as a pawn by her family( or may have been playing along) but she did not sit meekly by her powerful husband and let her life slip away. She used the influence she gained to promote her beliefs. As to whether this site would exist, I would like to believe it would. I think Anne is wonderful because of how she lived, not how she died and I think that is what draws us all to her even after all this time. On that note however, there probably would not be all the movies and quite as many books and resources if she had had a son.

July 30, 2013
9:55 am
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Kaz
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I saw this interesting question over the weekend and had a good think about it…….

I get a feeling we have been/are protesting Anne Boleyn’s innocence for approx. 500 years. Why are we not as fascinated about KoA or any other of henry’s wives? How about Catherine Howard – no one seems to be protesting her innocence 500 years later…..I think that’s why we’re so intrigued with Anne Boleyn – from all the posts I’ve read and how I feel about Anne Boleyn as each day goes on and new discoveries are made, it’s a passion of a protest that we are here on this site, every day, checking things out, wanting answers. And we all seem to agree king henry was a sicko, narcissist, megalomaniac; we are all on the same page.

Anne Boleyn seems to be a strong character, was extremely well blessed and educated, she chose to challenge henry on many things, stood up to him, maybe even looked down on him towards the end, but still, that is no excuse for terminating an amazing life ‘just because you are a king and can do whatever pleases.’

Claire Ridgeway herself would not have made this website and be where she is today if it wasn’t for her dream being with the crowd on Anne Boleyn’s execution day – why didn’t Claire have this dream but with Catherine Howard?

I believe we are fascinated with Anne Boleyn because she was innocent.

-"Trust in those who offer you service, and in the end my maidens, you will find yourselves in the ranks of those who have been deceived" - Archduchess Margaret of Austria.

July 30, 2013
12:03 pm
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Steve Callaghan
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I’m going to be glib, simply because I haven’t the time at present to go into this deeply:

* I think those wonderful, apt portraits of Anne have boosted her modern-day popularity.

* Far more importantly…KoA’s story is more-or-less as sad as Anne’s but the rancour we feel about Katherine’s unjust fate is lessened by the fact that her life rather petered out & didn’t end in the dramatic way Anne’s did. Katherine’s death is poignant and terribly sad but the injustice is drawn out so its impact pales in comparison.

Henry’s women made their marks, it’s clear, and all of them seem fresh in the memory despite of the passage of time. His reign reads like the best-possible Historical novel, and even its “footnotes” are at once both beautiful and tragic: who could forget the poetry of Katherine’s final lines, and fail to be be floored by her loyalty and love in the face of despair? Who could read Anne’s scaffold speech and miss the beauty of her words (“And so I take my leave of the world, and of you all…”)? These small things – this natural intelligence, grace and feeling – defy what was truly a man’s world, replete with those childish pastimes of pompous pride and display. Katherine and Anne snatched the victory, and the last expressions of their brilliance defeat the imaginative efforts of our best playwrights, poets and novelists; a Pyrrhic triumph, for sure, but a telling one nonetheless. This “book” of Henry’s reign is the most beauteous in our history because of these women, and they are rightfully the main characters, the words they have left to us the most memorable and moving.

July 30, 2013
3:14 pm
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Boleyn
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Actually Kaz does have a point. It does seem as if no one does champion K.H, the way we all champion Anne.
Anne we all believe was whole innocent a victim of one man’s spite (Lard Arse) and another man’s greed (Cromwell).
I think it’s because K.H was in part guilty of the crimes that she had been accused of.
She did have a sexual relationship with Dereham, she had a flirtatious relationship, with Mannox, this took the form of furtive gropings, and in my opinion possibly anal sex.
Culpepper’s relationship (loosely worded) I believe was nothing more than just a game of courtly love which went a little beyond the excepted norm of things (I don’t believe they had sex, but we do know that the intentions were there)
K.H showed a lack of prudence when dealing with people, and as a result laid herself open to all those who sought to use her to get what they wanted (I.e Power and Money)
She was a young teen with a child’s mind, running into danger and not caring what the conquences of her actions would do. Lard Arse was enchanted by her because she was to him life loving free spirit, perhaps she reminded him of what Anne was when he was courting her.
K.H doesn’t seem to instill the outrage and sheer disgust that I feel about the false accuations levelled at Anne and being railroaded to death, by a man who had moved heaven and earth for her only to turn around and murder her because.. basically he was a fat smelly useless GIT.
K.H instills my pity and in some respects my anger, but really to do with the way she had been brought up, I rather think that although the Duchess did what was required of her ie feed and clothe her she didn’t do what she should have done to fit K.H into the staid and very hostile dog eat dog world of what was court life.
I feel that poor K.H was a defenceless little child who was thrown to a pack of hungry wolves who devoured her with neither grace or gravy If she had, had the proper education to deal with court life I think she would have been successful, she made some very bad decisions and they cost her dear. Lady Jane Rochford tried her best to warn K.H about her erratic and thoughless behaviour, and I rather think that at times K.H could be rather petulant and annoyed by Jane trying to tell what she should and shouldn’t do. Typical teenager, the more you tell them not to do something the more determined they are to do it just to spite you.
When K.H’s make believe world came crashing down around her ears, she hadn’t got a clue on how to save herself and hoped that 1. if she blamed Jane for her mistakes that Jane would be the one who would suffer for them. and 2 that she would still be Queen and that Henry would forgive her because she was young and pretty. She soon discovered however that all that glittered was not gold and those who she thought were her freinds were in fact her bitterest enemies, who would be happy to sacrifice her to save their own worthless lives.. Poor Katherine, the silly little empty head hadn’t got a chance. She was a kind hearted (too kind hearted) soul who thought that nothing or nobody could ever harm her, and put her trust in one man’s hands. Lard Arse and he betrayed her in the cruelist possible way..

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

July 30, 2013
3:44 pm
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Steve Callaghan
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Yep, good summing-up, Bo.

July 31, 2013
10:31 am
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Kaz
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RE SteveJ’s post – KoA’s story is sad, yes, her first husband died and then she had to marry henry, and just because henry went mental-obsessed with Anne, decided to throw KoA out of court. That’s pretty bad, yes. But henry spared her life.

But it’s so strange how henry’s brain worked – why didn’t he let Anne Boleyn live just like he did with KoA?? Both ladies were highly religious and both had daughters to him. Was it maybe because KoA was henry’s brother’s wife and somehow henry didn’t want to kill his brother’s wife? Strange sick man that one.

Re Boleyn’s post – that’s the beauty of innocence isn’t it, a happy world where the people closest to you are your friends. So true about the dog-eat-dog court life. I read in ‘The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn’ book that Ives describes court life as innocent people with good morals and values initially walking into court life only to be ruined, pretty much. For what? So you have the ‘privilege’ of wiping the king’s bum after he does a poo??? LOL!!!!!!! Seriously, I had no idea that was such a privileged job to have – did those people hear themselves back then??? “I am awesome because I get to wipe the king’s bum”…….yuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways, I’m getting off subject again. Yes, agree that KoA’s life was just as sad (but at least she died a natural death although without a crown), and KH I agree was an innocent child in an ugly court scenario yes, well said to both.

Kind regards.

-"Trust in those who offer you service, and in the end my maidens, you will find yourselves in the ranks of those who have been deceived" - Archduchess Margaret of Austria.

July 31, 2013
12:16 pm
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Steve Callaghan
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I’d say Henry only spared Katherine because he was (rightly) fearful of the possible repercussions.

And yes, it says it all about courts of this period that the title of Official Poop Mechanic or whatever was highly sought-after.

July 31, 2013
3:07 pm
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Boleyn
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I’m sure that even lard Arse could manage to wipe his own bottom, if he was given a set of instructions and compass.
I agree Steve K.O.A couldn’t be executed even if Lard Arse had wanted to. Henry would have had an almighty Holy war come down on him like a tonne of bricks if he had, not to mention serious trouble at home too.
Lard Arse in my opinion was a complete coward. He could bully, boss and chop up his own subjects but when it came to the forgien powers he shook in boots and hid away in a dark corner, blaming everyone else for his screw ups.
What makes me laugh with old Lard Arse, that he made such a big thing out of his French campaigns and yet acheived very little to nothing over there anyway. Ok he took a couple of French towns, but when he discovered that they were ultimately more trouble than they worth he sold them back to France. Yeah he got some money for them but the money he got was a lot less then he had shelled out to get them in the first place, so he was running at a loss anyway.
The Battle of the spurs was another of Henry’s failures, it was so called because Lard Arse had said that the French army who had come to take them on took one look at the English army turned tail and ran away. Rubbish if the French army were ordered to fight for King and Country they would have done, you may get one or 2 cowards who ran away from the field of battle, but not a whole army no way?
K.O.A on the other hand outshone Lard Arse’s French farces by a long margin. Flodden. need I say more.
Lard Arse was all bluster and ballast. I love to see Dr Dave take him on, I’m sure he would soon have Lard Arse crying for his mummy and wetting his hose, when Dr Dave blew Lard arse’s perfect vision of himself apart.
As long as I can give Lard Arse a swift kick somewhere with a steel capped boot I’ll be happy.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

July 31, 2013
3:29 pm
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Steve Callaghan
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Henry owes his prominent place in history entirely to his wives; without them, he’d barely get a mention. A mediocre and shamelessly expedient king.

July 31, 2013
5:35 pm
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Boleyn
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Very true Steve. if it wasn’t for Henry’s disasterious Marital history Henry would just have been the 8th of the name of kings called Henry.
In short he sat on throne stinking the whole place out and sulked or threw a paddy when things didn’t go right for him.
I rather think that Febreeze would have a hard job combatting Henry’s stink.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

July 31, 2013
10:18 pm
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Anyanka
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SteveJ said

I’d say Henry only spared Katherine because he was (rightly) fearful of the possible repercussions.

Executing a Spanish Princess would have got him into a whole realm of excreta.

And yes, it says it all about courts of this period that the title of Official Poop Mechanic or whatever was highly sought-after.

It was since it allowed a reasonable amount of private time with the king to drop subtle or not so subtle hints and requests for favours.

It's always bunnies.

August 1, 2013
8:54 am
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Kaz
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Oops sorry, I totally forgot KoA was super duper well connected (I just see people at the top as ‘the people at the top’ and that’s it) but yes, KoA did have huge connections – it was a whole country! Maybe that’s also why henry decided to marry Anne Boleyn – and it would fit very nicely if he was a cowardly figure – “I’ll take this innocent young lady as my wife, and she is a commoner, so she’ll be no harm to me!”….couldn’t even marry his own ‘size’….it’s all starting to make sense……

That’s disgusting about having ‘private time’ with the king in the toilet of all places…..thank God they invented offices now, LOL!!!!!! Ewwwww stinky stinky!!! I think I’d suffocate.

-"Trust in those who offer you service, and in the end my maidens, you will find yourselves in the ranks of those who have been deceived" - Archduchess Margaret of Austria.

August 1, 2013
2:18 pm
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Boleyn
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Kaz You are right there. Henry liked to dominate people and especially woman. K.O.A basically bossed Henry about, and he didn’t like that. K.O.A did you must admit give Henry some very well reasoned and sound advice,which Henry didn’t always choose to follow and when he did he put it across to his council as if it was his own idea,and gave K.O.A little to no credit when her advice to him had been proved right.

I kind of get the impression that he was none too pleased with her success at Flodden, as it made his so called victories in France look like pimple of a bulls arse, and maybe even embarrassed him in front of the rest of the world, that a mear woman could win a battle against a man if that makes sence.
Henry was a coward and like all cowards they bully those who he deems inferior to him to make himself feel better. Oh yes he was a charmer and he certainly charmed his way with the woman, only K.O.A and Anne saw what he truly was underneath all his bluster and ballast. i.e a frightened little cowardly bully boy, who was immature, peevish, and in my opinion mentally unstable.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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