Olga,
No, I don’t think you are wrong. As far as I know anyway, Catherine is Mary’s eldest.
As I understand it, the annuity of 100 pounds was given to Mary by Henry shortly after Anne’s request of December 10th, 1528. I expect Henry acted on the request sooner than 1531. That date seems way wrong. Henry made Thomas take some responsibility as a father…”that he must needs take her, his natural daughter, now in her extreme necessity.” (letter to Anne from Henry, June 15th 1528). It seems as if everything took place rather quickly except for the guardianship which took place in 1529. Henry, whether he was trying to appease a dismissed mistress, or whether he was trying to please Anne, acted with a lot more sympathy than Thomas Boleyn did. Thomas waited until he was ordered to help Mary before offering any type of aid.

Henry gave Anne guardianship of Henry Carey. Anne didn’t take it with a nefarious purpose in mind. She did it to help her sister. I would think that would take a load off Mary’s shoulders even if she was getting an annuity. Henry Carey would have been shipped out to a noble house eventually. Why shouldn’t it be Mary’s sister who takes him? Who better? Henry felt that Anne was better able, and she was certainly in a better position to give Henry Carey an excellent education. It wasn’t as though Mary would never see Henry. In fact, by Anne having guardianship, Mary would see him often.

It depends on who you are reading as to whether they think giving over guardianship of Henry to Anne brought strife between the sisters. I see the guardianship as being a great relief to Mary. I think Mary and Anne got along pretty well at this point. Their only falling out seems to have happened later when Mary was banished from court in 1534. It was because of Anne that Mary received any help at all after Carey died. Anne is the one who wrote to Henry requesting help for her sister.

Louise,
What was I thinking? You are so right. If it wasn’t for Anne begging for help for Mary, these two would have done nothing to help her.

Olga said

-In 1543 after Mary’s death the wardship of Henry and Catherine Carey reverted to the crown

Catherine would have already been at court at this point, and Henry Carey was sent to court. Catherine would have been receiving a wage, and I think this is where Henry VIII would have been pitching in for Henry’s education. That’s probably what i read in the Julia Fox the other day and couldn’t find it again.

On a different note, Loades has Henry as being born before Catherine, I thought Catherine was older? Did I get it wrong?
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Wasn’t Catherine a lady in waiting or a maid of honour to AOC before transferring to KH’s household??

Catherine was also maid of honour for Elizabeth 1st as well. She married Sir Francis Knollys in 1540, and yes she was in both AOC and KH’s households I’ve not found anything about after the downfall of K.H so I guess she may have retired to the country for a while. When Mary Tudor came to the throne, both see and her Husband went abroad, and returned shortly after Mary Tudor’s death to serve in Elizabeth’s household. She was around 45 when she died….

Olga.. Hatches, Matches and Despatches records in those time were often very spartan. The eldest child’s birth was generally recorded, especially if was a boy as they would be the heir. All Royal children of course would be registered, but for the most part it was generally said that a child was born in Winter Spring, Summer or Autumn.
So it could well be that William was 20, but like you I think he was around the same age as Mary. Until we know otherwise we can only guess.

It could well be he was younger than Mary, but according to Wiki (Which I hasten to add is NOT a reliable source and has more holes in it then a swiss cheese at times) William was born around 1500 and died in Geneva in 1556. Like I said Wiki is very often wrong that’s why historians tend to shun and avoid it.. But if that is correct and as Wier (Clare Gnashes teeth) William was 12 years younger than Mary, it means that Mary’s date of birth would be 1488. I don’t think William was a gold digger, Mary hadn’t got anything out of her relationship with Henry, and she had little to offer anyone who took a shine to her. Marriages back then were all to do with power, position and wealth and Mary had none of those. The only reason I can see for Mary even being at court is because her sister was Queen. Yes Mary was in COA’s household, but personally I think if Anne hadn’t have taken Henry’s fancy Mary would have been long gone after her affair with the King ended. Plus you must remember that many people in court hated the Boleyn’s, I should say Anne more than any of them but because Anne was the adored wife and lover of Henry no one would dare rail against her because of what they could lose if they did, aside from their head that is. So Mary and to a certain degree George bore the brunt of that hatred. Mary must have felt terrible to be trapped in that situation.
William gave Mary the chance to be herself and not do what everyone else wanted her to do. I do think they loved one another. William was perhaps her safety blanket if that makes sence.
Poor Mary she didn’t have a much of a life did she? I can only hope that in William she found a sort of inner peace and contentment that she never had in all the years she had to endure life at court..

Olga, I agree that Anne was stressed (she probably was most of the time she was married to Henry), so maybe her anger with Mary was an over-reaction, but the fact remains that Mary did something she knew was against the way things should be done. From a modern standpoint, we can applaud her wish to be true to herself and what she wanted from life, but I think she probably had a pretty good idea of what Anne’s reaction would be, hence the secrecy. I wonder how long Mary and William would have kept it secret if she hadn’t become pregnant?

On tudorplace.com is just says William was born before 1512, which doesn’t narrow it down much.

Mary was either in the country or possibly at Calais, so she was nowhere near Anne. Anne sent her something (a gold cup and some cash I think) so yes I’d say they had mostly made up their quarrel, or at least Anne had mellowed towards her. How did she feel? I imagine she would have felt like any other sister would knowing her brother and sister were to be executed by a man she once shared her bed with.
Why a lot of historians downplay the closeness between Mary and her siblings I don’t know. At least prior to their major falling out I assume they were all as close as could be in that environment. There is just as little known about George as there is about Mary, George’s closeness with Anne is displayed by a beautiful book inscription (I think, maybe a letter, correct me if I’m wrong) Mary we can only guess, but with how long she spent attending her sister
The whole “jealous Mary” comes about from historical fiction, there is no evidence whatsoever about how she felt. We can only guess. And I’ve said it before, I never thought Mary had the ambition to be Queen.

Well Janet, sometime before 1512 solves the mystery