August 17, 2014
LadyPrincess said I wish this whole Thomas, Elizabeth and Catherine Parr affair wasn’t true as I don’t like to think that CP was capable of inappropriate behavior towards her own stepdaughter and that Elizabeth was actually flattered by Thomas’ advances.
For now history says this is more likely true than not. Maybe one day they’ll find some information to disprove this (like what Connor Byrne did by exposing that Henry VIII was actually the rose without a thorn) and it will be revealed that Ashely and Parry were coaxed into saying what they said and that most historians were wrong about this affair.
I agree though that it does seem out of character for CP to have torn Elizabeth’s gown. Indeed it is hard to imagine such a well educated, and seemingly level headed woman deciding to take part in such a ridiculous romp. But she may not have seen it as doing anything wrong, or she may have been persuaded by Thomas, or maybe her love for Thomas made her act in a way that was out of character.
It’s possible that CP eventually saw that she was wrong and that Thomas did indeed like Elizabeth and that she (CP) had behaved just as badly as he did and decided, because she was so fond of Elizabeth, that she would just send her elsewhere and they could continue to communicate.
Another theory for Thomas’ romps with Elizabeth being true are: if Ashely was such a known gossip maybe it would have been easier to extract the truth from her when she was being interrogated. Or perhaps she and Parry intended to hide the truth and it came out sounding even worse than it actually was.
I do think think that if one wants to understand history, one must accept the possibility that people one likes can sometimes behave wrongly.
In families where a father or stepfather has a sexual relationship with a child, a mother can know it but does not do anything to prevent it and protect her child. And that can happen even if people are religious – and then it seems more difficult to inform police and get police.
So, one cannot be sure that KP could not have acted wrongly regarding Elizabeth, especially as she was madly in love with her husband. However, in her deathbed she seems to have bitter against him which shows that she held him responsible.
February 22, 2013
Hi Hannele! Good to hear from you!
I think you’ll find in my comments that I agree with you completely! (Though I am open to the suggestion that CP may have been a bit misrepresented here) Personally, I am of the opinion that Thomas and Catherine did behave badly and that most (if not all) of what Parry and Ashley said happened between Elizabeth, Thomas and CP is true. Frankly, I find CP’s and Thoma’s behavior deplorable!
And as much as I like Elizabeth I also believe that she was flattered by Thomas advances. I don’t excuse or choose to not accept Thoma’s or Catherine’s behavior. I do recognize that during Tudor times being 14 one was more or less considered a young adult (I mentioned this before in another post). However, I do feel as though, (judging Elizabeth by 21rst century standards) that being 14 -some of her immature behavior is much more understandable than that of her step mother and Thomas. I view Elizabeth as the victim. And Catherine and Thomas in the wrong.
“How haps it, Governor, yesterday my Lady Princess, and today but my Lady Elizabeth?"- Elizabeth I
February 24, 2010
Elizabeth did find Seymour’s attention flattering. She was young and vulnerable. I’m just glad that she got out of there when she did. Katherine made a wise decision. They say that later in life, Elizabeth’s favorites were all similar, in looks and personality, to Seymour. She was fond of the handsome, dark, swashbuckling type. And why not? Can’t say I blame her there.
January 3, 2012
I totally agree that K.P and T.s behaviour towards Elizabeth was completely bang out of order. I suppose if you apply 21st logic to the situation it can be construed as grooming. I believe that T.S fun and games were certainly a prelude towards Elizabeth of something of a sexual nature, and that K.P seemed to encouraged T.S and join in with these games suggests that she agreed in T.S’s plans.
Whether anything of a sexual nature, between T.S and Elizabeth, be that just fubbling with each other or full intercourse took place, we can never really know. But my personal opinion is that T.S did try to force himself upon Elizabeth, and Kat Ashley stepped in and chased him off.
I believe that Kat Ashley had voiced her concerns about T.S’s inappropiate behaviour towards Elizabeth to K.P several times and each time K.P dismissed her concerns as being over protectiveness and that T.S games were just innocent fun.
Once T.S’s games were exposed as being a lot more serious than K.P believed she perhaps realised that she had allowed the situation to go to far.
I don’t think she sent Elizabeth away in disgrace, (although she perhaps was annoyed with her) but sent her away to protect her from T.S’s sexual advances.
I believe that shortly before K.P gave birth Elizabeth and K.P’s relationship was like it once was, when K.P was married to his Royal Faceache, and that Elizabeth was extremely upset when she found out that K.P had died.
T.S being the total rogue he was made it clear that he wanted to marry her as soon as possible, if she had still been within K.P’s household I think T.S certainly would have made sure Elizabeth had no other choice but to marry him, by raping her.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
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