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Richard III
September 12, 2012
12:44 pm
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Boleyn
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All joking aside If they have found him I hope he’s given all due respect, and given a decent burial as befitting his status. I think he would be buried with his wife. It would be a remarkable find if the bones do turn out to be Richard. Nothing like this has happened since the Princes were discovered..
I second Gill’s thoughts, My stomach is in knots and my head is in a spin because of this.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

September 12, 2012
2:48 pm
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Olga
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Sorry Janet didn’t see you there. This is the official site if you haven’t found it already

http://www2.le.ac.uk/news/blog…..istory201d

isn’t it exciting?

September 12, 2012
4:42 pm
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Janet
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Thanks Olga. I’m very excited!!

September 12, 2012
7:24 pm
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DuchessofBrittany
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Boleyn said

All joking aside If they have found him I hope he’s given all due respect, and given a decent burial as befitting his status. I think he would be buried with his wife. It would be a remarkable find if the bones do turn out to be Richard. Nothing like this has happened since the Princes were discovered..
I second Gill’s thoughts, My stomach is in knots and my head is in a spin because of this.

My sentiments, exactly! I hope they can identify his remains, and then bury him according to his status. This is exciting stuff!! I am such a history nerd!

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

September 12, 2012
10:29 pm
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Gill
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DuchessofBrittany said

I am such a history nerd!

Those were my exact words on Facebook! Cool

September 13, 2012
12:30 am
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Janet
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I’m one too and I get the feeling that there are quite a few history nerds around here.Laugh

I’m just SO excited about this. I really, really hope it’s him, but at the same time I’m afraid it’s not going to be and we’ll be disappointed. I feel like I’m waiting for a baby to be born.

September 13, 2012
9:13 am
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Olga
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I’m already hoping that if it is him they will bury him with Anne at Westminster

September 13, 2012
1:48 pm
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Boleyn
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Olga said

I’m already hoping that if it is him they will bury him with Anne at Westminster

I think they will Olga, at the very least he does deserve that.
According to the paper this morning they think thay may have found him. The bones that they unnearted was found with a head wound and an arrow underneath him which would of course been in his back. The skeleton measures 5ft 3 so not tall by the standards of his brother Edward, assuming that it is Richard. It’s certainly very exciting. Just think we are all very lucky to be able to share this bit of history.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

September 13, 2012
10:06 pm
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Bill1978
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The big question is, if they find the skeleton and the skeleton is not hunched will some historians finally accept that Richard was not the Hunchback Of England like Shakespeare portryaed him as.

September 13, 2012
11:11 pm
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Olga
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From the website

“At today’s press conference, it was announced there is strong circumstantial evidence that the human remains discovered at the Grey Friars site could be Richard III. The remains had suffered injuries consistent with battle wounds. The man also had severe scoliosis (a form of curvature of the spine). But he did not have kyphosis and therefore did not have a ‘hunch-back’ as described by some Tudor sources.”

I really haven’t read enough about Richard to know if it was likely he had something like scoliosis and I have always assumed that it is Shakespearian propaganda

September 13, 2012
11:12 pm
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Olga
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I love these. That’s quite the handsome depiction of Richard Laugh

http://www2.le.ac.uk/news/blog…..i-pictures

September 14, 2012
1:30 am
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Gill
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Olga said

I love these. That’s quite the handsome depiction of Richard Laugh

http://www2.le.ac.uk/news/blog…..i-pictures

Yes, those are nice. And there is no reason to assume he wasn’t an attractive man – he certainly came from an attractive family. As for the scoliosis…the sources from his own lifetime are a bit vague about his appearance, although he was described as being notably a lot shorter than his brothers, taking more after their father. From memory some earlyish Tudor accounts (before the hunchback story got into the swing) claimed he had one shoulder higher than the other – which would be totally compatible with severe scoliosis. It would seem – if these bones are indeed Richard, which appears very likely – that those stories told the truth, but became more exaggerated as time wore on and less and less people remembered Richard personally. The curved spine became a hump, and they added a withered arm and a limp for good measure.

It’s quite interesting that the finding of the spine deformity answers other questions too…there was a poem about the York children with the line “Richard liveth yet” which has led a lot of historians to speculate that he was a sickly child or premature, but if he had obvious spinal problems his contemporaries may well have expected him not to thrive and comment that he was hanging on in there.

September 14, 2012
2:41 am
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Janet
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From what I’ve read (leaving out the Tudor propaganda about Richard) he didn’t have a hunch back. What he did seem to have was one shoulder higher than the other, which would fit with scoliosis.

September 14, 2012
2:45 am
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Anyanka
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laughs…Us Northerners wil so get this…
http://newsthump.com/2012/09/1…..z26NXTFlYc

It's always bunnies.

September 14, 2012
5:50 pm
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Boleyn
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I rather think that Richard may have had a spinal problem, but not a deformaty. It could be that he may have got a slipped disc or perhaps along similar lines as my spinal problem. He may well have walked with a stoop to help relieve the pressure or pain he might have been feeling and certainly riding a horse would have agravated the problem.. I must admit I walk with a slight stoop and a terrible limp, and use a stick to help me balance as my balance is all out of kilter.
Of course there could have been another reason to why their first appearences of the bones suggest Richard had a deformaty, because of the way he was buried if he wasn’t buried in a coffin or tidied up before being buried and just shoved in a hole it could well be that he rotted in a unusual position. Evidence suggests that there was still arrows in him, also I think it was Bill who said that after Henry was declared the King at Bosworth Richards body was basically treated with contempt. He was stripped naked and tied to a horse to be paraded around Leicester. If If riga mortis had set in by the time the people had had their fun with Richard’s body his body would have been bent over and the only way they could have straightened him out for burial would be to break his back.
This idea that Richard was a hump backed dwarf I think was basically a Tudor Smear campaign, after all Elizabeth of York would have know what Richard looked like.
I don’t think Richard was as tall as his brother’s according to the measurements of the skeleton, he was around 5ft 3ins which is tiny next to his brothers, but then I think the average height for most people back then was on around 5 feet, so he was around average.

I must admit my stomach has got loads of butterflies over this find, just think we are all part of this extremely historic occation (albeit indirectly)
It is a case of Wow and double wow..

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

September 14, 2012
11:34 pm
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Gill
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I’ve been watching a clip of an interview with one of the archaeologists, and he said they initially thought the curved spine may have been caused by the way he was buried or whatever, but when the osteo-archaeologist had a closer look she was fairly sure it was scoliosis, which as you may or may not know is a sideways bend in the spine, at around the level of the ribcage. It wouldn’t have caused a stoop because the bend is the other direction, and would have made one shoulder higher than the other.

September 15, 2012
12:54 am
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Olga
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Thanks Janet, I wasn’t sure.
We were talking about it last night and Craig pointed out it wouldn’t have been a commoner as he wouldn’t have been buried inside the church, something I had forgotten. Which just makes me more excited. I may be nuts but I am quite convinced they’ve found him

September 15, 2012
4:05 am
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Janet
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Did I read somewhere that DNA testing takes 12 weeks or 12 days? Confused

September 15, 2012
5:24 am
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Bill1978
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Takes around 12 weeks Janet. Unless you are performing it on a crime show, then it takes about30 mins and mystery solved within a day of said mystery occuring.

September 15, 2012
12:37 pm
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Boleyn
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I think we will have to wait the abigatory 12 weeks as 1 the bones are very old and it may be that the normal way of DNA testing is not possible so they will have to use mitacondrial DNA testing instead, and 2 they want to be apsolutely 100% it is Richard as in years to come this will be debated and they want to leave no room whatsoever for doubt, and look silly if they have made a mistake.
If Richard did have a deformaty here’s a prime example of a man who didn’t let him beat him. I see Richard as a man of strong and resolute courage and drive, determined to do what was best for his people. I don’t agree with the way he usurped the throne, but I do understand his reasons or what I believe to be his reasons.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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