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Jane Parker (Lady Rochford)
November 4, 2013
5:43 pm
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Sharon
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MrsFiennes said

Boleyn said

Olga said

I think you’re overstating Jane’s position at court and importance to Cromwell MrsFiennes, which probably would have been very little.As for her position at court I don’t think her position with Jane has been recorded specifically but there is no way at all she would have been in the inner bedchamber and been closely attending Jane. No way at all. She would have been part of the household and Jane would have had more than a hundred servants, probably 150 in her household, it was hardly the position Jane was used to with her sister-in-law.

I don’t feel I am overstating her position.I think she was probably accepted back into a high position very quickly with Cromwell’s help and her qualificaions probably did make her stand out as someone with a lot of experience so I don’t think people would have questioned it.All the better for Cromwell to use her as I think he did.I don’t think he helped anyone unless it was to his own advantage or helped HIM further his career within the court and with the king.

Julia Fox speculates that Jane would have been an insider and could keep Cromwell informed about what was going on in the Queen’s household. He was unable to move in and out of the Queen’s rooms, but Jane could. Fox claims that Cromwell would have wanted to know what the Seymour’s were up to and Jane would have been the perfect go between. Fox does not know say for sure if she had a high position in Queen Jane’s household, but she did come back to court with her title of viscountess still intact. That alone would give her privileges at court.
It is speculation, but there it is.
As to her jointure. Cromwell did take her request to Henry who is responsible for getting her pension for her. Henry went to Thomas Boleyn and told him to increase her pension, which he did.

November 4, 2013
7:51 pm
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Boleyn
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Sharon I can see I’m going to have to toddle or wobble off down the library again pretty soon. As for Cromwell he did have his fingers in a lot of pies that’s for sure. Certainly he would like to know what the Seymours were up to, but then he wouldn’t have just been interested in the Seymours plans, he would want to know the in’s and outs of all those in Lard arse’s circle, so that if they fell for some reason he could somehow control the situation which could benefit him. Lard Arse has his number alright, he knew that Cromwell was a self seeker but it suited him to have him around as he did get the job done. Lard Arse never liked running the country he always had other people do it for him. First Wolsey and then Cromwell. For me at least I think Lard arse had a very sick sence of humour in creating Cromwell Earl of Essex just a matter of a few months before he was disgraced.
As for Jane B, being Cromwell spy I really don’t know. It’s possible, but until I see evidence to back this up I have to say no.
There is another possiblity of a spy in Queen Jane’s household, Cromwell’s son Gregory was married to Jane’s sister Elizabeth, could Gregory be Cromwell’s spy via his wife?

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

November 5, 2013
2:55 am
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Anyanka
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Boleyn said

There is another possiblity of a spy in Queen Jane’s household, Cromwell’s son Gregory was married to Jane’s sister Elizabeth, could Gregory be Cromwell’s spy via his wife?

Either Elizabeth knew her sister lacked any serious power to help her or it was common knowledge that Cromwell was in a much better position to help out. Marrying his son to Jane’s sister was a politically good move for him. I often wonder if Mary Boleyn married Stafford to avoid marrying either Cromwell or his son herself.

It's always bunnies.

November 5, 2013
3:52 am
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MrsFiennes
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Sharon said

Julia Fox speculates that Jane would have been an insider and could keep Cromwell informed about what was going on in the Queen’s household. He was unable to move in and out of the Queen’s rooms, but Jane could. Fox claims that Cromwell would have wanted to know what the Seymour’s were up to and Jane would have been the perfect go between. Fox does not know say for sure if she had a high position in Queen Jane’s household, but she did come back to court with her title of viscountess still intact. That alone would give her privileges at court.
It is speculation, but there it is.
As to her jointure. Cromwell did take her request to Henry who is responsible for getting her pension for her. Henry went to Thomas Boleyn and told him to increase her pension, which he did.

I think Julia Fox is correct.I think Cromwell was involved with most everything that happened at court during this time.Any factions or plots springing up in his area was something I am quite sure he wanted to be kept informed on.Since he couldn’t possibly know what was going on in the queen’s chamber he needed a spy in that area.Who better to be that spy than Jane.Jane owed a debt to him and I am very sure he collected it.

November 5, 2013
9:18 am
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Olga
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Julia Fox speculating that Cromwell had Jane spying for him means as much to me as Retha Warnicke speculating George Boleyn was gay. As far as I remember she didn’t present any evidence or contemporary rumour for it. If there was at least a rumour one could speculate. She also speculated that Jane may developed a relationship with Mary as a political move in case Henry and Jane S. had no heir, except that Morley has been friendly with Mary, and Jane even allegedly involved in a public show of support for her far before Jane S. was in the picture.
Don’t get me wrong, I think she’s an excellent historian but I just don’t buy it.

Do you think Cromwell would have considered Mary Boleyn for his son Anyanka? I was completely baffled with Mantel having Mary propose to Cromwell in Bring up the Bollocks. Have I missed something somewhere?

November 5, 2013
5:22 pm
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Boleyn
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Olga said

Julia Fox speculating that Cromwell had Jane spying for him means as much to me as Retha Warnicke speculating George Boleyn was gay. As far as I remember she didn’t present any evidence or contemporary rumour for it. If there was at least a rumour one could speculate. She also speculated that Jane may developed a relationship with Mary as a political move in case Henry and Jane S. had no heir, except that Morley has been friendly with Mary, and Jane even allegedly involved in a public show of support for her far before Jane S. was in the picture.
Don’t get me wrong, I think she’s an excellent historian but I just don’t buy it.

Do you think Cromwell would have considered Mary Boleyn for his son Anyanka? I was completely baffled with Mantel having Mary propose to Cromwell in Bring up the Bollocks. Have I missed something somewhere?

Lol Olga, do I detect that Hilary Mental is not your freind?

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

November 5, 2013
6:56 pm
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Sharon
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Olga said

Julia Fox speculating that Cromwell had Jane spying for him means as much to me as Retha Warnicke speculating George Boleyn was gay. As far as I remember she didn’t present any evidence or contemporary rumour for it. If there was at least a rumour one could speculate. She also speculated that Jane may developed a relationship with Mary as a political move in case Henry and Jane S. had no heir, except that Morley has been friendly with Mary, and Jane even allegedly involved in a public show of support for her far before Jane S. was in the picture.
Don’t get me wrong, I think she’s an excellent historian but I just don’t buy it.

Do you think Cromwell would have considered Mary Boleyn for his son Anyanka? I was completely baffled with Mantel having Mary propose to Cromwell in Bring up the Bollocks. Have I missed something somewhere?

I agree with Olga and Boleyn. Historians should stick to facts and let people like us do the speculating. HAH! Smile From what I can tell, Morley was the one who was sympathetic towards Mary, and Jane just tried to get along with her once she was back at court.
I don’t think you are missing anything, Olga. The only place I have read about Mary Boleyn and Cromwell was in Bring Up the Bodies. Cry

November 6, 2013
2:20 pm
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Anyanka
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Olga said

Do you think Cromwell would have considered Mary Boleyn for his son Anyanka? I was completely baffled with Mantel having Mary propose to Cromwell in Bring up the Bollocks. Have I missed something somewhere?

Cromwell was certainly clever enough to realise that marriage into the king’s family would bring all sorts of goodies, money, titles, land. He had the precedent of both Charles Brandon and the Boleyn family to understand the power of family connections to the king. Plus marriage to Mary would place his son into the Howard family glossing over Cromwell’s low born family heritage.

However all this is simply what I think…I have no evidence either way apart from the later marriage of Gregory Cromwell to Elizabeth Seymour.

It's always bunnies.

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