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Elizabeth Somerset, Countess of Worcester (wife of the 2nd Earl) question
November 12, 2016
3:47 am
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GraceK
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So, as much I considered myself knowledgeable about Tudor history, I have to be honest and admit I have never heard of this woman before a few days ago. In everything I have read or seen in regards to Anne Boleyn, this woman being a main accuser never seems to come up. Ive read endless things about the horrible Lady Rochford and her alleged role in the downfall of Anne, but I never heard anything about this woman. Ive looked her up online and not much detail is there. Does anyone know anything about her and her role? About why she would do such a thing to Anne, who seems to have been a friend and protector?

November 12, 2016
7:25 pm
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Boleyn
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The only thing that I can think about where the Countess of Somerset fits in, in Anne’s story, is that Elizabeth was aledgely supposed to have loose morals and when she was ticked off ,by her brother I believe about her behaviour, she said something like “Why have a go at me? My morals and manners are far tamer than those of the Queen.”

Lady Rochford, is not as guilty as so many believe, she just happened to be seen as an convenient scapegoat. If Jane was as black as some people have painted her, she WOULD NOT have served 5 queens.
Jane put her court career on line during Anne’s tenure as Queen, by slapping a woman who had taken the fancy of SPB, the woman I believe left court shortly after. If Jane’s actions against this woman were known she might well have found herself out of a job.
Jane wore her heart on her sleeve and perhaps didn’t always think before she acted, but she wasn’t horrible and she certainly didn’t say anything against Anne or George to Cromwell.
We don’t know what the marriage was like between Jane and George, but I believe it was mutually satisfactory. If they didn’t exactly love each other, they did at least have affection for each other.
Read Clair Cherry and Claire Ridgway’s book about George Boleyn.
Elizabeth Norton’s book “The Boleyn Women” and Julia Fox’s book “The true story of the infamous Lady Rochford” are very good too.

B.T.W, S.P.B. = Sweet Plump Buttocks aka Henry 8th.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

November 12, 2016
10:07 pm
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Anyanka
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Boleyn said

Jane put her court career on line during Anne’s tenure as Queen, by slapping a woman who had taken the fancy of SPB, the woman I believe left court shortly after. If Jane’s actions against this woman were known she might well have found herself out of a job.

Jane was definitely sent to cool her heels over her quarrel with H’s un-named lady friend.

It's always bunnies.

November 12, 2016
10:13 pm
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Anyanka
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Boleyn said

Jane wore her heart on her sleeve and perhaps didn’t always think before she acted, but she wasn’t horrible and she certainly didn’t say anything against Anne or George to Cromwell.
We don’t know what the marriage was like between Jane and George, but I believe it was mutually satisfactory. If they didn’t exactly love each other, they did at least have affection for each other.
Read Clair Cherry and Claire Ridgway’s book about George Boleyn.
Elizabeth Norton’s book “The Boleyn Women” and Julia Fox’s book “The true story of the infamous Lady Rochford” are very good too.

  

I think that Jane had been confided in by Anne regarding Henry not being able to get it up and it was she who told Cromwell.

I tend to think she was rattled by being interrogated and that just popped out of her mouth.

It's always bunnies.

November 12, 2016
11:28 pm
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Boleyn
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Anyanka said

I think that Jane had been confided in by Anne regarding Henry not being able to get it up and it was she who told Cromwell.

I tend to think she was rattled by being interrogated and that just popped out of her mouth.  

It’s possible I suppose, but I don’t think it was as bad as all that, and Cromwell was a master at making mountains out of molehills.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

November 13, 2016
3:11 am
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GraceK
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Boleyn said
The only thing that I can think about where the Countess of Somerset fits in, in Anne’s story, is that Elizabeth was aledgely supposed to have loose morals and when she was ticked off ,by her brother I believe about her behaviour, she said something like “Why have a go at me? My morals and manners are far tamer than those of the Queen.”

Lady Rochford, is not as guilty as so many believe, she just happened to be seen as an convenient scapegoat. If Jane was as black as some people have painted her, she WOULD NOT have served 5 queens.
Jane put her court career on line during Anne’s tenure as Queen, by slapping a woman who had taken the fancy of SPB, the woman I believe left court shortly after. If Jane’s actions against this woman were known she might well have found herself out of a job.
Jane wore her heart on her sleeve and perhaps didn’t always think before she acted, but she wasn’t horrible and she certainly didn’t say anything against Anne or George to Cromwell.
We don’t know what the marriage was like between Jane and George, but I believe it was mutually satisfactory. If they didn’t exactly love each other, they did at least have affection for each other.
Read Clair Cherry and Claire Ridgway’s book about George Boleyn.
Elizabeth Norton’s book “The Boleyn Women” and Julia Fox’s book “The true story of the infamous Lady Rochford” are very good too.

B.T.W, S.P.B. = Sweet Plump Buttocks aka Henry 8th.  

Im definitely not attacking Jane, so if I came off that way I didn’t mean to. Thats why I wrote allegedly. What I meant is that Jane seems to get the blame for a lot of the accusations made against Anne, when really it seems this Countess of Worcester played a bigger role…thats what I dont get. Why isnt she made more of in movies and books instead of Jane?

November 13, 2016
5:34 am
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Anyanka
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GraceK said

Im definitely not attacking Jane, so if I came off that way I didn’t mean to. Thats why I wrote allegedly. What I meant is that Jane seems to get the blame for a lot of the accusations made against Anne, when really it seems this Countess of Worcester played a bigger role…thats what I dont get. Why isnt she made more of in movies and books instead of Jane?  

I think a lot of it is based on the fall-out of KH’s downfall. That Jane had acted in Kathryn’s orders to help her and Culpepper meet during the 1541 progress , added to the One woman that George mentioned…and a nearly 500yo game of telephone.

Jane becomes the perfect Accuser(tm), close enough to Anne be credible and her later actions WRT KH make her look like a hypocrite or a promoter of immorality to two of Henry’s queens looking merely to save her own skin.

A relatively unknown woman who wasn’t apparently very close to the Boleyn family doesn’t have the Jerry Springer-esque impact. It writes like a tabloid story using Jane

Spurned Wife Blows Whistle on Anne and George’s incestuous polygamy relationships

It's always bunnies.

November 13, 2016
6:30 am
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GraceK
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Btw, love your name Anyanka. HUGE Buffy fan.

What I find interesting is that the Countess was actually a good friend of Annes. Anne lent her money ( which was not paid back by the time of her death) and apparently Anne even asked about her health and welfare while she was in the tower, cause the countess was pregnant. The fact that they were close was what gave so much credence to the accusation.

November 16, 2016
7:16 pm
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Sharon
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Yes, Jane was sent from court for trying to get rid of a woman who Anne assumed was having an affair with Henry. Much to Chapuys’ glee. We never do find out who that one was.
Jane may or may not have told Cromwell that Anne had said Henry was having trouble in bed. Cromwell handed George the note at his trial, and told him not to read it out loud. George did so anyway. It is supposed that Jane told her husband this secret. It may not have been Jane’s testimony at all. We just don’t know.

Elizabeth Somerset was the sister of Anthony Browne, a trusted member of Henry’s court. Anthony got wind of a rumor that his sister was being promiscuous. He confronted her, and they had words. Apparently, Cromwell heard of this argument. Elizabeth said something along the lines that she wasn’t as promiscuous as the Queen. Cromwell would certainly have checked out this tidbit. It is said that her testimony was devastating, but we don’t know what she said to Cromwell, nor how he interpreted it to be used at trial.

None of these women testified at the trial.

Lady Wingfield, Bridget Wiltshire, had died in 1534, and she was supposed to have indicted Anne while on her deathbed. Funny that it took 2 years for that info to reach Cromwell. Very strange to have testimony from a dead woman who cannot defend herself. Nan Cobham, and possibly Margery Horsman, may also be among the women questioned by Cromwell. We do not know for sure what any of them said to Cromwell. We don’t know how much of what they may have said was twisted to suit Cromwell’s purpose, which was to get rid of Anne.

These women are always blamed for Anne’s downfall. If it’s not one woman, it’s the other one who is blamed. It is my opinion that none of them are to blame. The blame lies with one man, and that man is King Henry VIII. I don’t even blame Cromwell. He did the job he was tasked with, and he did it to perfection.

If all of these women testified to the horrible things Anne was accused of, why weren’t they all arrested, except for the dead Lady Wingfield, and charged with misprision like the women were who served Katherine Howard? Come to think of it, if the family of Wingfield withheld some indictable facts for 2 years, why weren’t they arrested? I find it hard to understand, if they knew these damning facts and hid them, that there weren’t any subsequent arrests of these people. That’s what would be expected, right? Everyone involved should have gone down, but they didn’t. Jane, and I think some of the other ladies, went on to serve future queens. If Henry knew they held secrets about Anne’s adultery, and didn’t tell him, he certainly wouldn’t have let them back to court to serve his future wives.

June 14, 2018
8:38 am
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Dave
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Hi,

I have a question but can’t find an answer anywhere.
My Name is Dave Dumoulin from Belgium – I’ve been working on my family tree since some time and Elizabet Somerset and Anne Percy came in some sites as relatives on my grandmothers side ‘Verbruggen’. I find the very interesting but lost that evidence.
Can someone help me out here?

Grtz
Dave

June 16, 2018
6:40 pm
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Boleyn
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Sharon said
Yes, Jane was sent from court for trying to get rid of a woman who Anne assumed was having an affair with Henry. Much to Chapuys’ glee. We never do find out who that one was.
Jane may or may not have told Cromwell that Anne had said Henry was having trouble in bed. Cromwell handed George the note at his trial, and told him not to read it out loud. George did so anyway. It is supposed that Jane told her husband this secret. It may not have been Jane’s testimony at all. We just don’t know.

Elizabeth Somerset was the sister of Anthony Browne, a trusted member of Henry’s court. Anthony got wind of a rumor that his sister was being promiscuous. He confronted her, and they had words. Apparently, Cromwell heard of this argument. Elizabeth said something along the lines that she wasn’t as promiscuous as the Queen. Cromwell would certainly have checked out this tidbit. It is said that her testimony was devastating, but we don’t know what she said to Cromwell, nor how he interpreted it to be used at trial.

None of these women testified at the trial.

Lady Wingfield, Bridget Wiltshire, had died in 1534, and she was supposed to have indicted Anne while on her deathbed. Funny that it took 2 years for that info to reach Cromwell. Very strange to have testimony from a dead woman who cannot defend herself. Nan Cobham, and possibly Margery Horsman, may also be among the women questioned by Cromwell. We do not know for sure what any of them said to Cromwell. We don’t know how much of what they may have said was twisted to suit Cromwell’s purpose, which was to get rid of Anne.

These women are always blamed for Anne’s downfall. If it’s not one woman, it’s the other one who is blamed. It is my opinion that none of them are to blame. The blame lies with one man, and that man is King Henry VIII. I don’t even blame Cromwell. He did the job he was tasked with, and he did it to perfection.

If all of these women testified to the horrible things Anne was accused of, why weren’t they all arrested, except for the dead Lady Wingfield, and charged with misprision like the women were who served Katherine Howard? Come to think of it, if the family of Wingfield withheld some indictable facts for 2 years, why weren’t they arrested? I find it hard to understand, if they knew these damning facts and hid them, that there weren’t any subsequent arrests of these people. That’s what would be expected, right? Everyone involved should have gone down, but they didn’t. Jane, and I think some of the other ladies, went on to serve future queens. If Henry knew they held secrets about Anne’s adultery, and didn’t tell him, he certainly wouldn’t have let them back to court to serve his future wives.  

Quite right Sharon.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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