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Season 4 Episode 4 SPOILER ALERT
May 5, 2010
9:04 am
Forum Posts: 959
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February 16, 2009
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So, what did you think of Episode 4?

Your thought on:-

  • Charles Brandon and the ghost of Lord Darcy – I liked the way that they're showing how Brandon is haunted by his actions during the Pilgrimage of Grace, at least someone feels guilty about it!
  • Henry's visit to Yorkshire – Those people begging his forgiveness just made me feel sick! I know he's their monarch and they believe him to be appointed by God etc. but he ordered such cruelty and whole villages were massacred yet he was forgiving them!!
  • Mary – I really love Sarah Bolger as Mary, she's a great actress, and I loved Henry's look of pride after she had addressed the crowd.
  • Catherine and Culpepper – well now, they do get up to all sorts don't they!
  • Catherine and Henry – Henry is obviously feeling his age and she's rather frustrated, and does he seem to be getting rather impatient with her and her lack of fertility so far? Also that bit where she came in and he was writing the letter and then he quickly had sex with her so he could get back to his letter, poor girl!
  • Francis Dereham – I can see why they are portraying him as a drunk and loose talking man because they need Catherine's past to get out, but I'm not sure the real Dereham was like that.
  • The letter – As Cranmer is missing from the cast, I'm assuming that this letter has been written by the chap that reprimanded Dereham for his behaviour, the one Dereham punched, or did I miss something?
  • Edward – It was touching to see Henry's concern over Edward when he was ill, showed Henry's human side. I also liked seeing Elizabeth and Edward's relationship.

Let me know your thoughts.

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

May 5, 2010
1:43 pm
Forum Posts: 104
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January 27, 2010
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Definitely the beginning of Katherine's end in this one. It really seems like there's a net drawing in around her that she can't help, which is going to make her execution seem quite touching I think. (I know her past is the problem and that is her own fault, but you know what I mean!)

I liked the ghost. It sets it up for Henry to have his visitations later in the series. I can't help wondering if wives 1, 2 and 3 will be done up in the corpse make up like Darcy or whether he'll see them more as memories.

Elizabeth and Edward's scenes were sweet. Pity they're both so wooden though! Although the boy playing Edward is so young, so I suppose I can let him off a bit on that one! I still don't think Elizabeth would have had crimped hair. It was touching of them to include Mary in the illness scenes, even though it was via prayer, and have the three of them together in some way.

Francis Dereham – I really wanted to punch him! I'm not sure the real Dereham would have been stupid enough to get a high-ranking position in the royal household and then risk it by talking too much.

Jane Boleyn – looking increasingly like she's sucking on lemons. I don't think Culpeper's visiting her anymore somehow!

Henry – obviously cares a great deal about Edward, which was nice to see.

Katherine and Mary – I loved their 'I refuse to look at you' moment whilst waiting for the Scottish King to arrive!

I got a little distracted towards the end. Firstly by the 'Henry's temper tantrum' scene in the church. I couldn't help wondering who would have the job of picking up all those pearls! Secondly by the disembodied hand leaving the letter on Henry's chair. I had a mental image of him leaving the service with the letter stuck to the back of his coat! But then again I have a bizarre mind!

Episode 5 should be a dramatic one 🙂

May 5, 2010
5:54 pm
Forum Posts: 137
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March 12, 2010
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So, here's my thoughts:

Charles Brandon and the ghost- I'm glad that he's being haunted by this violent past, too!  But it makes me feel sorry for him in a way…he hated what he had to do for Henry after the Pilgrimage of Grace from the beginning. And Beth, I wondered the same thing!

Henry's visit to Yorkshire- I know what you mean Claire!  But at the same time I liked how it showed how much Henry's people loved him and how godlike monarchs seemed to common people during this time.  Beth, I thought that look was funny too!

Mary- I love Sara Bolger, too.  And I loved Henry's look of pride as well!  Ever since I read Linda Porter's biography on her, I've felt a deep sympathy and understanding towards Mary.

Catherine and Culpeper- Wow.  It's getting intense.  Sex scenes on public TV aren't nearly as graphic in America, which I find sort of interesting.  I thought it kind of showed Culpeper's nature when he acted sexually demanding after Catherine got upset and said things she didn't mean.

Catherine and Henry- I actually feel sorry for both of them in ways when it comes to this situation.  I think Henry really did care for Catherine as much as he could care for anyone, and perhaps it was even mutual in some way, but there were just too many differences for them to be a successful couple (age, maturity, past experiences, etc.).

Francis Dereham- No, definitely not THAT crude in real life, but I guess developing his character further would've been a time issue for the show.

The letter- I would think so too Claire.  And Beth, I actually thought about that too!  That just seems very awkward for a monarch like Henry to sit down on something and have to stand back up to get it and read it or to get it stuck to his clothes. Haha!

Edward and Elizabeth- This whole situation was very touching- the siblings together, Henry's concern, etc.  But Beth, once again, I agree!

Jane Boleyn- She was more in the background during this episode.  I'm interested to see how they'll portray her alleged insanity and her arrest and execution.

Overall, I thought this was a great episode.  I'll be biting my fingernails next week!  And by the way, I'm happy to say that my younger sister has gotten hooked on the show! Now I actually have someone that can appreciate the Tudors with me Laugh

May 5, 2010
7:07 pm
New Zealand
Forum Posts: 933
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January 9, 2010
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Sometimes I wonder if the character of Charles Brandon isn't being used as some kind of metaphor for Henry's conscience….  but I loved that scene and I think you could be right Beth, in that it sets it up later for Henry's own hauntings.

Edward and Elizabeth – I don't mind the boy that plays Edward but the girl that plays Elizabeth just annoys me some reason!  The part where Edward wakes from his illness and prods a sleepy Henry was really touching.

I just feel more and more sorry for Catherine getting so far out of her depth – having to pretty much accept that sorry excuse for a human being Dereham into her household and then suffer through his awful behaviour and insinuations.  And I'm with you Claire – I think the letter must've been written by the guy that got annoyed with Dereham, surely everyone else in Catherines household had too much to lose?  Unless someone else knew what was going on that we don't know about yet.  Hmmm….

Gah, don't know if I can wait another week for the next episode, I'm biting my fingernails now! 

November 19, 2010
10:25 am
Georgia, US
Forum Posts: 426
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October 31, 2010
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1.  Loved Brandon and Lord Darcy–even though I thought in reality the Duke of Norfolk was responsible for the Pilgrimage of Grace debacle–not the Duke of Suffolk.  I have to side with Bella on this because they just seemed to have taken SOOOO much dramatic license with Charles Brandon.  I also thought that his marriage to Katherine Willoughby was quite happy, so what other reason do they have for completely rewriting history than to act as a dramatic foil?

2.  I don't know how I feel about the visit to Yorkshire.  I got a little confused because I kept expecting Katherine to be crowned queen, but then I thought I read somewhere that AB was the last of Henry's queens to ever formally be crowned, and then the coronation never occurred…

3.  I really am starting to feel badly for Mary.  Prior to this I'd never really liked Mary, but I think they have done an excellent job of making you feel Mary's frustration and pain, and props to Sarah Bolger for putting a heart and a conscience to a woman that I think many historians would have us believe was heartless and cruel.

4.  Katherine and Culpepper. Geez, can't we just execute them all ready and get it over with?  I really just hate this portrayal of Katherine Howard because it does absolutely nothing to evoke any sympathy for her from me.  I really do want to feel something for her–I even managed to feel sorry for Jane Seymour before it was all said and done, but I got absolutely nothing for Katherine.  And Culpepper just annoys me the way he just moons around after her.  Please!  And she's not even that pretty!  If this is truly an accurate representation of Katherine Howard (and I ardently hope that it isn't), then it's no wonder she got herself executed.

5.  Katherine and Henry.  At this point, Katherine is starting to remind Henry of the age difference between them, and I think that, by having Henry turn to AoC in the show, we're starting to see Henry wanting someone more mature.  He never could really decide what he wanted in a wife, could he?  Devout mother and friend or wanton sex goddess–never could get one woman who seemed to fit the bill.

6.  Francis Dereham is just ridiculous, but his presence actually causes me to be more irritated at Katherine than at him.  

7.  The letter…I thought the same thing!  What if the King doesn't see the letter!?  I also wondered about the pearls in Yorkshire.  Who had to crawl around on the floor and pick up all those pearls?

8.  I love the scenes between Henry and Edward…actually between Henry and all his kids.  He seems incredibly proud of both of his daughters, and his love for Edward is touching and I think this lends a spark of humanity to a character that it would be easy to hate.  I also think that, despite everything, Henry was still a fairly devout Christian–even if he did sort of twist the Reformation to suit his own needs.    

"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"

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