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Katherine Howards Execution *spoilers*
May 10, 2010
6:59 am
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missisGG
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Why oh why did they have to make her say 'i'd rather die Culpeppers wife', they gave Anne such a good execution, couldn't they have stuck to the facts for Katherines too?

Also I was really annoyed they make Lady Rochford get executed first, didn't they execute in importance so the Queen would have gone first?

Other than those things I thought it was sensitive like Annes and I really felt for poor Katherine, what did you think? I think it felt abit rushed and Henry didn't seem upset, I thought he was supposed to have been devastated?

I must admit I am finding this series alot better than series 3, I found it really boring!

May 10, 2010
5:59 pm
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Sabrina
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I watched this episode earlier today… OMG

Watching Catherine's desperation, you can't help but feel for the girl. Lady Rochford, well, I think she went mad over guilt.. For convincing Catherine to have an affair, and for lying about Anne and George. When she was dancing, it was very serene, despite her fomer lovers being chopped up for having been with her.

I think Henry was just desperate to move on, and he didn't want to think about the fact that he was cuckholded. All of those courtiers, all throwing themselves at him, that's the only way he could move on.

This season is better than the last one.. I hope to see Charles Brandon happy again, as he is too handsome to be sad all the time.. Wink

Let not my enemies sit as my jury

May 10, 2010
6:20 pm
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HannahL
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MissisGG, I noticed that too!  But I guess it added more suspense to save Katherine's execution for last.  And they probably included those final words for the same reason that someone in history said them:  they add purpose to Katherine's sad end. 

That said, it's been a while since I've cried this much over a movie or show!  Despite Katherine's guilt, I felt so sorry for her.  We may never know for sure her reasons for cheating on Culpeper, but she was in way over her head in the first place.  Sabrina, I loved the scene where she was dancing too.  The mystical music and her in the background reading over her letter to Thomas and talking about her relationship with Francis took me to the sobbing point!  And as for Jane, she broke my heart too.  I don't know if she actually went crazy or put on because she thought insanity would save her, but when I consider that she may have been attracted to Thomas and tried to please him, I actually feel sorry for her.  I guess part of my sympathy came from the gore of the whole situation, such as Katherine wetting herself from fear and crying at the sight of Thomas's head, and the ladies-in-waiting dumping Jane's head in the basket.  What a horrible situation. Frown

May 10, 2010
11:28 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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What about them taking an historical fact (that she asked for the block the night before so she could practice kneeling and putting her head on it) and deciding, “Hey! Let's make her do it naked!” It was so jarringly wrong that it robbed the scene of a lot of its natural pathos. And going to her death barefoot? In February? Why? Just trying to make her look as young and pitiful as possible?

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May 11, 2010
11:27 am
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Bella44
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Oh yes, having her do that scene naked was just wrong.  Wrong, wrong, wrong!  It was supposed to be the middle of winter for heavens sake!  Anything for a thrill I suppose.

Aside from that I really felt for Katherine.  Wished they could have spent more time on Lady Rochford and her alleged insanity though.  I would've really liked to see her suffer a bit more!

May 11, 2010
2:57 pm
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HannahL
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I forgot to mention the naked thing in my post!  I agree…it was like, let's see if we can get one more nude scene of her in before she dies!  Haha. It seems like the poor girl was completely naked more than she was clothed during her time on the show!  And Impish, I guess that's why they did the barefoot scene.

May 12, 2010
1:12 am
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missisGG
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gosh I didnt even think about that. Maybe they thought it would show her vulnerability? Didn't really work.

Also, would she really have been put in such a grotty cell. Did she not get a nice room like Anne? Poor Katherine, she got second rate treatment compared to Anne and she didn't even sleep with her brother Wink

May 13, 2010
7:25 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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Neither did Anne.

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May 14, 2010
1:28 am
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missisGG
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yes exactly! Hence the wink Laugh

May 14, 2010
9:04 am
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Impish_Impulse
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My bad. I plead tiredness.

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               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

May 14, 2010
9:56 am
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Melissa
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Bella44 said:

Oh yes, having her do that scene naked was just wrong.  Wrong, wrong, wrong!  It was supposed to be the middle of winter for heavens sake!  Anything for a thrill I suppose.

Aside from that I really felt for Katherine.  Wished they could have spent more time on Lady Rochford and her alleged insanity though.  I would've really liked to see her suffer a bit more!


I was all sad for the whole episode until I saw her naked in the cell and burst out laughing!  I loved the dancing scene too-reminded me of “Margaret”s death back in Season 1 with the voiceover.  The show seems to be getting more and more historically accurate as time goes by, but it felt like they're trying to pack as many historic details as possible into the episode and some of the pathos was lost. And was it just me, or was Edward's wife's pregnancy compressed into a couple of days?  

I'm still really confused about the motivation of the characters.  I mean, I don't know the motivation of the historical people either, but with a fictionalized show like this I would have liked to have seen stronger choices about why they did what they did.  The writers kinda started to do this by having Jane sleep with Culpeper, but they just dropped that thread.  I got the impression this season that both Culpeper and Katherine herself had some sociopathic tendencies.  Katherine was hysterical, but really, what did she think was going to happen?  I did feel for her on the scaffold though-why did they have to have the poor girl piss herself? So sad.  

Historically, Katherine Howard is (like Jane Seymour) something of a cipher.  What the hell was she thinking!?!? I always remember David Starkey's phrasing here, referring to practicing with the block the night before, that this act, like the rest of her life “was curiously materialistic.”  

Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne.

May 14, 2010
10:30 am
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Sharon
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There was an interview done with either the producer or the director of The Tudors a while ago.  He said that Catherine Howard was a whore.  He treated her as one through out the show.  Hence, one of the last scenes, which could have been a most heart wrenching scene,  continues with the whore theme. I didn't like it.  It was just one more time everyone watching the show got to see a naked scene with this actress.  I thought it was a cheap shot.

I have a different take on why Catherine called for the block the night before her execution.  I thought that she wanted to die with dignity.  I think she wanted to get used to the feel of the block against her neck. She didn't want to make a fool of herself on the scaffold in front of everyone. She would die a proud Queen. 

“I would rather die Culpeper's wife?”  Where did that come from?

May 17, 2010
12:34 pm
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Beth
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Sharon said:

“I would rather die Culpeper's wife?”  Where did that come from?


I have no idea where it started originally but I've seen it credited to Catherine quite a few times. I'm pretty sure Emily Blunt's Catherine says it in 'Henry VIII' too, but it made more sense there seeing as they went for the doomed romance angle.

Perhaps it was just made up for dramatic purposes because the real Catherine hadn't said anything that would interest the baying public.

May 17, 2010
11:53 pm
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missisGG
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I think its something to do with a paper at the time claimed she had said it?

I bet most people you talk to would think it's what she actually said, tv shows reinforcing this belief doesn't really help!

May 20, 2010
10:13 am
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Melissa
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I just watched a mini interview with Michael Hirst, creator of the Tudors, and he said he believes Katherine really said that “wife of Culpeper” bit.  He said he knows most people believe she couldn't have said it, but it's so true to her character (so says he) that he believes it.  

Regarding the block being brought to Katherine the night before the execution, I forget which historian said this but it made a lot of sense.  Katherine had pleaded with the king for the life of Margaret Pole, and though he wouldn't grant her life he did permit Katherine to send her blankets and clothes in the tower.  Margaret Pole had a famously bungled execution, in which she ran around the scaffold while the headsman just hacked at her with the axe.  They showed that on The Tudors but Katherine wasn't involved on the show.  With such a dreadful execution fresh in Katherine's mind, she may have just wanted to make sure that the same didn't happen with her, that she could die with dignity and just one blow.

Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne.

May 21, 2010
4:32 am
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Anique
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To be really honest I don't even care if that is what really happened.

I have books for that.

I thought it was really beautiful, and I cried quite a few times, for this girl, the fictional Katherine and the real Katherine.

The dance scene was my favorite. <3

May 21, 2010
12:12 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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The dance scene was beautiful and emotional. And that's what continues to frustrate me about this show – its unevenness. They get some little-known details spot-on, and they're capable of scenes that make you really feel for the characters and/or weep. But then, they have scenes that are so off-base, ludicrous, or flat-out wrong, that it jars you completely out of the storyline. It's maddening. *sigh* But I continue to watch. I'll not watch The Borgias, though. I'm not as invested in them to put up with the wildly uneven historical veracity.

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               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

May 21, 2010
3:46 pm
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Bella44
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Impish_Impulse said:The dance scene was beautiful and emotional. And that's what continues to frustrate me about this show – its unevenness. They get some little-known details spot-on, and they're capable of scenes that make you really feel for the characters and/or weep. But then, they have scenes that are so off-base, ludicrous, or flat-out wrong, that it jars you completely out of the storyline. It's maddening. *sigh* But I continue to watch. I'll not watch The Borgias, though. I'm not as invested in them to put up with the wildly uneven historical veracity.


That's an excellent way of putting it, Impish, sums the whole show up perfectly!  I'll end up watching the Borgias, I just know I will.  Plus Jeremy Irons is gonna be in it!

May 25, 2010
5:30 am
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Bambaleyn
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I haven't yet got to the execution episode, have only seen the first four, but I know I am going to cry when I do finally watch it, just as I did for Anne's execution.

I wasn't sure about the actress playing Katherine Howard at first, but the more I watched her, the more I think she really nails the character. Tiny little actions – such as her playing peekaboo with Prince Edward and then speaking 'through' the magnifying glass to Culpepper – just make her so endearing and a part of me doesn't want to watch as she is executed – maybe if I never see it, it never happened….

~ Team Anne ~

May 26, 2010
9:19 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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Bambaleyn, isn't 'ghost' Anne's dress absolutely smashing? Natalie Dormer will always be my mental image of Anne, now.

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               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

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