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Henry's accident
June 13, 2010
9:20 am
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Claire
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Henry VIII had a jousting accident in March 1524 when he forgot to put his visor down and the Duke of Suffolk hit him just above his eye – narrow escape! Henry actually got back on his horse and carried on jousting!

He then had another more serious jousting accident on the 24th January 1536 when he fell off his horse and his horse fell on him. This is the accident that caused him to be unconscious for 2 hours and it was thought that he'd die. There is speculation that this accident caused some brain damage and that's why he became more of a monster, see http://www.independent.co.uk/n…..70421.html. The accident may also have caused Anne's miscarriage in that she was obviously stressed by what happened. If I remember rightly, The Tudors did show both of these accidents.

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June 13, 2010
1:03 pm
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Christen
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That's correct, Claire. They did show both accidents, but the first in 1524 was changed around a bit, making Anthony Knivert hit him instead of Suffolk. They used this as their way of an opening to show Knivert and Compton given titles (Anthony for being struck worse after Henry continued jousting, and William for carrying the huge log).

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June 14, 2010
1:27 pm
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Melissa
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I don't remember the episode, but there was the hunting accident (that happened in real life) in one of the episodes where Henry fell into a pond and his companions were laughing at him.  Perhaps that's what you're thinking of, wreckmasterjay.

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August 15, 2010
5:43 pm
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Marquess_of_Pembroke
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Claire said:

Henry VIII had a jousting accident in March 1524 when he forgot to put his visor down and the Duke of Suffolk hit him just above his eye – narrow escape! Henry actually got back on his horse and carried on jousting!

He then had another more serious jousting accident on the 24th January 1536 when he fell off his horse and his horse fell on him. This is the accident that caused him to be unconscious for 2 hours and it was thought that he'd die. There is speculation that this accident caused some brain damage and that's why he became more of a monster, see http://www.independent.co.uk/n…..70421.html. The accident may also have caused Anne's miscarriage in that she was obviously stressed by what happened. If I remember rightly, The Tudors did show both of these accidents.


Thank you for the link to the article. I was aware of the injury, but had not read about the theory of the accident changing his personality. I found that to be very interesting.

August 16, 2010
12:52 am
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Claire
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wreckmasterjay,

Eric Ives writes that “On 24 January the king's horse fell heavily in the tiltyard at Greenwich, knocking Henry unconscious for two hours” and refers to LP x.200 where Chapuys writes:-

“On the eve of the Conversion of St. Paul, the King being mounted on a great horse to run at the lists, both fell so heavily that every one thought it a miracle he was not killed, but he sustained no injury.”

Anne Boleyn miscarried on the 29th January, just five days later.

Marquess,

It is an interesting article isn't it? I'd also recommend Suzannah Lipscomb's book “1536: The Year that Changed Henry VIII” which is an interesting read because Lipscomb thinks that it was the events of that year which really affected and changed Henry.

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August 16, 2010
10:06 am
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ipaud
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We have talked a little about Henry's jousting accident before with a view that it brought about the personality changes or brought to the fore a personality trait that Henry had kept well hidden. I think that these two hours were the most interesting of his reign and history changed dramatically from that day forward. Regardless of different times and different attitudes, Henry changed from the much loved King to tyrant almost over night. This would be consistent with a head trauma in my estimation. The expedited trial of His Queen, Anne and her co-accused contradicted its self as if Anne and Henry were never married, both his daughters Mary and Elisabeth were at that stage both bastards. I somehow get the feeling at that time that Henry was an incoherent mess going one way, then another. Any seemingly well thought out argument would have held water with him. A most intriguing  time indeed.

If it was not this, then it would be something else?

August 17, 2010
5:43 am
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DuchessofBrittany
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I asked my Mum, who is a nurse, about what the implications could be for a fall from a horse. She told me any kind of head injury could greatly change the behaviours and personality of a person. Especially in a day when head gear (such as helmets for a joust) would not provide adequate protection for the skull in a fall. In her estimation, Henry suffered severe trauma to the brain, and without modern-day medical advances, Henry would not have any access to trauma centres like we do.

Also, as I talk about Henry and Anne a lot at home, I also asked my Mum about a theory Suzannah Lispscomb wrote about in her book about the impact of Henry's recurring leg injury. As Lipscomb argues, Henry probably suffered from Osteomyelitis, a inflammation of the bone or bone marrow. If Henry became septic, on occassion, his behaivour would greatly change. According to my Mum, people who suffer from osetomyelitis can be in a delirium when septic, and their behaviours can become quite erratic. She even spoke of times when people had to be restrained because of their symptoms from similar septic infections.

In my own opinion, Henry's accident (probably a serious head injury) coupled with a recurring leg injury, and also a complete degradation of the man he was in youth, could have created the tyrant in later life.

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August 20, 2010
2:57 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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Another vote for brain injury causing personality changes. I worked with a man who was in an auto accident with his then wife and both suffered brain injury which required months of rehab. He said that they both underwent profound personality changes; he became very laid-back, while his wife became hyper and controlling. The marriage didn't survive.

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August 22, 2010
8:31 pm
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AnneTheQueene
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I don't believe the fall could of caused Henry to change completely, there had to be something in him that still had compassion.  The power-lust got to his head, he was raised in a way to become his strict, controlling self.  I just wonder if he ever thought of the wrong doings in his life or if he ever regretted them?

August 23, 2010
2:06 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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AnneTheQueene said:I just wonder if he ever thought of the wrong doings in his life or if he ever regretted them?


He seemed to have a 'knack' for blaming anyone and everyone for anything he didn't want to be associated with later. I waver between thinking him to have been a psychopath/sociopath, or 'merely' incredibly immature, manipulative and vindictive. But as Paudie pointed out elsewhere, he must have had some good qualities for a woman like Anne to have been in love with him, which I believe she was.

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October 24, 2010
2:57 pm
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Anne
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Just a funny thing my best friend noted about this scene:”Wow,Jane is really a jinx!She gave him her favor,wished him good luck and he almost died.And on top of that,that a….e Henry thinks that she is his lucky charm….If I were him,I would have her beheaded instead of Anne,just to save myself and the country from her!”…I laughed a lot with her reaction but actually she was right.I mean he fell,almost die and thought that she gave him luck!!!!It was kind of stupid.It would have been much more better if they show (like in Henry VIII)her tending on his wounds.It would have looked nicer for Jane and more realistic as to why Henry might have fallen in love with her(and it would actually make sence why he thought of her as an angel etc)

February 13, 2011
5:30 am
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DuchessofBrittany
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I know it's been awhile since this thread was active, but I just wanted to let you all know I watched a program Friday night on Canada's History Channel titled Museum Secrets. It's a six part series featuring different museums from around the world and some interesting pieces from their vast collections.

Last night the show featured The Metropolitian Musuem of Art in New York. One piece the show featured was Henry VIII's “Wilton Armour.” They spoke about how the armour had been refitted to fit Henry's increasing frame, his failed campaign in France, and his significant changes in personality.

The show spoke to a leading psychoneurologist from New York who talked about new research into the impacts of head injuries. He used modern day concussions as examples of say American football players. The doctor argued that sports head injuries, such as concussions, have long term implications, and the patient can shows signifacant personality changes.

Suzannah Lipscombe was also featured in the same segment, and was used to couple the psychoneurologists research. Dr. Lipscombe spoke about Henry's two head injuries, espcially the terrible fall in Janurary 1536.

The impact of Henry's fall could have seriously damaged his brain, which could example his mood disorder in the following years. Since the Tudors did not have the luxury of modern medical technology, we can never really know. But after listing to a psychoneurologist, I feel he and Dr. Lipscombe are on the right track. But, even currently the medical community does not really know the long term effects of repeated head trauma, and hopefully ongoing research will incread our knowledge, and help answer some questions about Henry.

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

February 13, 2011
10:14 am
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Anyanka
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DuchessofBrittany said:

I know it's been awhile since this thread was active, but I just wanted to let you all know I watched a program Friday night on Canada's History Channel titled Museum Secrets. It's a six part series featuring different museums from around the world and some interesting pieces from their vast collections.


I've seen a couple of those but I missed that one..

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