Finale thoughts | Page 2 | The Tudors Show | Forum

Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Finale thoughts
October 28, 2010
4:10 pm
Avatar
Anne
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
September 22, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I am glad I found someone to analyse the Tudors finale.To tell you the truth,I hadn't paid any attention to Anne Stanhope up to the end where she and her husband teach Gardiner a lesson.But I wished they showed them more like a couple and not like this(and the actors looked so sexy together).And yes,I truly believe that Hery toyed a lot with those around him.

I am glad that you liked J.Richardson's portrayal as I did and I agree with you on the fact that 'till now we haven't seen a good-looking Catherine…Rosalie Crutchley looked so….miserable,sad,martyrish…Catherine is also a victim of miscast.As I said numerous times it is unfair having Anne always as a sexy young woman and Catherine as a sad,pious elder woman.Both women were attractive,became queens around the same age,were very fashion-consious,loved dancing,arts,finery,supported reforming ideas,had charisma and sex-appeal(Catherine attracted men,proof is the fact she became queen and attracted a man like Thomas Seymour).How could an old,pious and quiet woman become a queen?There are reports of Catherine's love of finery and luxury and certainly,she was ambitious.Mrs Richardson was suberb.She looked older than Henry's usual fancies but I think she is the most (in the classic way) beautifull of the wives.She had lovely dresses which show a great deal of her character and she really grow to you.I loved her interactions with the children,esp. her fondness of Elizabeth and her efforts to approach Mary,her relationship with Henry,her relationship with her sister and her inner circle.Overall,I saw a great woman,a courageous woman,a real tribute to Catherine Parr.She and Anne were the best researched and complex wives in the series.Closer call for me were KoA and Anita Briem as Jane.

Sarah Bolger was perhaps,alongside Natalie Dormer and Jonathan Rhys Meyers,the most intruiging and complex character…She took the path of showing the real Mary and her tragic end…The tragic youth,her upbringing,her relationship with Henry,even her repressed sexuality,her need of acceptance,her wish to become a mother,to gain her true place and how all these backfired in the end.Mary,ended up consumed in her belief and religion,obsessed to have a child,desperate to have a man,desperate to punish those who have hurt her and keep her crown and country safe.We saw the hurt Mary,the naive Mary,the heartbroken Mary,the jealous Mary and everything else that made this wronged woman infamous.Mary was not insane or a villain,she was simply a wronged and hurt person…Also,Sarah is so beautifull and classy,that it makes a great contrast how this fairytale princess became the iconical Mary.

As for Elizabeth,to tell you the truth,I wasn't really impressed.Sarah has stated very high standarts and Elizabeth seemed

so insignificant in comparison.You couldn't expect her to be the most iconic Tudor monarch.Yes,she looked a lot with Elizabeth and even held a passing resemblance to Natalie Dormer.But she was so ….stiff,poised with her lines,you didn't care much of her.And she didn't have any scenes of importance,unlike Edward and Mary.I expected to see a teenage Elizabeth dealing with her father,the loss of her mother,the loss of Jane,Anne and Katheryn,her relationship with Catherine…To tell you the truth,when I first show that they casted an older girl than Elizabeth's age during the events shown,I half-expected to see the whole Seymour thing,Thomas flirting her or she having a crush on him.I even had my hopes high to see a young Dudley!But all I gathered from teen Elizabeth is that she studied a lot,liked to dance and run after her brother…Not any emotions regarding her mother,the heartbreak she and Mary endured or any sign of her character and future self…

I could go on forever on the Tudors and my thoughts on thr series…I fear I tend to overanalyse things!!!

October 28, 2010
5:41 pm
Avatar
TinaII2None
Kentucky
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 393
Member Since:
June 5, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anne wrote:

I am glad I found someone to analyse the Tudors finale.

 

 


Hey Anne — just wanted to acknowledge reading your post before I head off to work. Going to give yours some thought as well, while I sort out what else I wanted to say about the finale. The more I think over things, the more I remember little details and all that helped to flesh it out for me.

But I will definitely mention something right now — You are dead-on about Joely Richardson! Finally, a Katherine Parr that actually seemed to come close to how the real woman might have been! I enjoyed her performance very much and am thankful that even with all the historical inaccuracies, they did it right casting Ms. Richardson. (And I'll never forget her lovely sister Miranda's hysterical part as Elizabeth in Blackadder II).

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

October 29, 2010
3:38 am
Avatar
Anne
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
September 22, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thank you and I am happy we agree on the cast of Catherine Parr.If you ask me she is perhaps one of  the most suited castings in the whole series.I am looking forward to your next posts and read your views!

November 4, 2010
1:35 pm
Avatar
TinaII2None
Kentucky
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 393
Member Since:
June 5, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anne said:

Thank you and I am happy we agree on the cast of Catherine Parr.If you ask me she is perhaps one of  the most suited castings in the whole series.I am looking forward to your next posts and read your views!


Well, thanks to Overtime and just having a busy personal life (in addition to injuring myself on-duty and pulling a muscle in my side, bruising my left knee and scratching up my right arm — all thanks to a fall), I'm finally getting back to the forum! And going to try to offer a few more comments.

Anne — we absolutely agree on Catherine, that's for certain. Watching the final episode one more time today, I was struck again by how much Joely Richardson is how I imagined Catherine Parr to have been, especially in appearance and mannerisms. She isn't a great beauty as we would think of in the “usual” sense, but she is still attractive, and carried herself as I think Catherine likely did — an intelligent woman thrust into a position she never asked for. I watched Joely in those scenes opposite JRM where she is both smart but subservient to her King/husband.

I watched her again in several scenes — when she reads the warrant and her face reflects her terror; when Henry comes to check on her and she bites her tongue and tells him nothing about why she is weeping; humbling herself before Henry and apologizing for being outspoken; the fear, again, when Wriothsley and the guards appear; and something I missed before — while I did notice Henry's look when Wriothsley slithers away, I just caught the expression on Catherine's face when Henry sits down. Did anyone else see that? I'm unsure if she believed Henry's performance, or realized just how close she had come to being put in the Tower…or that she was married to a changeable man in control of her fate.

I enjoyed (again) the scene when Anne Stanhope puts Gardiner in his place (she plays that so well, and when she drops the bomb, you can watch him deflate little by little LOL); and cheered again when Seymour punched the old creep. This time, I did catch when she was mentioned as part of Catherine's “inner circle” of women studying the New Learning, including the Duchess of Suffolk (was glad to hear Catherine Willoughby mentioned other than being Charles' wife, especially with her being shoved into the background thanks to the screenwriters). I'm with you Anne — I thought Max Brown and  Emma Hamilton were quite good together. And I loved this quote about Anne Stanhope from Tudor Wiki: She was known as a formidable shrew and could not stand Catherine Parr. After the death of Henry and as wife of the Lord Protector, she felt she was the first lady of the realm, ahead of the widowed queen, and this led to quarrels of precedence to ownership and possession of certain jewels. Anne considered that the Dowager Queen forfeited her rights of precedence when she married so far beneath her station. Anne refused to bear Catherine's train, and even physically tried to push her out of her place at the head of their entrances and exits at court. Anne was quoted as having said of Catherine, “If master admiral (Thomas Seymour) teach his wife no better manners, I am she that will”. Catherine, in her turn, privately referred to Anne as “that Hell”.

Speaking of Catherine Willoughby — what a darn shame she wasn't given more prominence in Season 4 with the exception of a cameo (and I couldn't even tell if it was the same actress). This was a woman representative of the new generation either raised or converting to the Reformist cause, not the devout Catholic they kept showing. (Tudor Wiki calls her “a devout evangelical reformer like the Boleyns”.) And could someone please tell me — was the ONLY reason for the estrangement between Charles and Catherine due to him partiicpating in Henry's harsh treament of the North during the Pilgrimmage of Grace? Everything seemed so good until then, and then we see them growing apart because of her objections. I kept wondering what she wanted Charles to do. Had he refused the King's orders, he likely would have been charged with treason and then all his lands and possessions would have reverted to the Crown.

I'm still not sure what I think of the whole Charles-Brigette storyline, especially with it being historically inaccurate. Could they not have cast another actress as Catherine (as they did with Jane Seymour)? I know it's all water under the bridge now, but I'm still not totally convinced they needed to go that route….I would have preferred Catherine remained in the story for a couple of reasons: to show her close friendship with Katherine Parr, and that rumors were floating about that Henry was going to get rid of Katherine and marry Catherine Willoughby! (And in reality, Catherine Willoughby became the guardian of Katherine's child Mary Seymour).

Ghost Anne Boleyn: Anne WAS the only one who approached Henry. Catherine remains pretty much in place the entire time. Jane Seymour takes her son by the shoulders and walks away. But Anne boldly walks towards him as she speaks, and I'm pretty sure she is the only one he asks to stay. Catherine he tells to go away (I think the line was 'go away shade'); Jane upsets him when she says her poor child will die and that Henry has done to Edward what Henry's father did to him. One more thing from the ghost scenes — I've heard that Tamzin Merchant was unavailable to do a ghost scene for Catherine Howard, so having cousin Anne Boleyn speak on her behalf was appropriate. Speaking of Catherine Howard…

When I first saw one of the episodes with Ms. Merchant's Catherine, I was ready to ram my head through drywall. Seeing her episodes in context I changed my mind. While Angela Pleasance's Catherine (of The Six Wives of Henry VIII) came across to me as arrogant and almost deserving of her fate, Tamzin made the girl almost sympathetic. I know she was silly, and as Ghost Anne said, like moths drawn to a flame and burned, but her entire story was sad to the point of nearly being pathetic. I saw how almost childlike she could be when she met Prince Edward, playing her little game of peek-a-boo; generous as when she gave Anne of Cleves one of the puppies or her cousin Elizabeth that necklace; even her attempts of friendship to the Lady Mary (I'm not sure Mary would have DARED say those things in reality to her real stepmother). Even her badly written note to Culpepper — the one that had Jane Boleyn LHAO — was sad because you knew the girl meant what she said and had none of the sophistication of others at court. I'm not sure how historic it was, but having her cousin Henry Howard standby as a witness was touching, especially considering his own fate.

The Tudors version of Elizabeth: guys, I'm still not sure. I didn't hate her but I was bowled over either. I'm with you Anne in that the girl was never given any major scenes in which to show what made her Elizabeth. There were only a couple of times I caught something slightly “Elizabeth-like” — when she was trying to teach Edward Latin, and when she tells Mary that she will never marry. Since we were discussing that particular scene, I tried to watch it closer, especially Henry's reaction to her and Elizabeth's reaction to him. I'm pretty sure this moment happened AFTER he sees Anne's ghost. He looks at the girl, there's an expression in his eyes — is it that he knows on some level he failed his own daughter because she reminded him so much of the mother? I'm just unsure. Now we know historically, Elizabeth was proud to be her father's daughter — I'm not sure what I read on her face at that moment.

One thing I forgot from last time but several of you mentioned it — how the heck could Holbein have painted Henry VII? LOL He would have been about 12 when Henry VII died, and then he passed about 5 years before Henry VIII. Oh well — at least he got the iconic painting of Henry VIII done! And notice that the first portrait was of “normal” size, whereas the final portrait was larger than life — sort of like the sitter himself!

Okay, I think that's it for now! Laugh 

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

November 5, 2010
9:37 am
Avatar
Sharon
Binghamton, NY
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2115
Member Since:
February 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

This is the third try…something has eaten my previous responses.

Tina, I hope you are doing better.  Sorry to hear about your fall.

I think Catherine was shocked by the way Henry manipulated her and Risley.*  She thought the problem had been resolved between herself and Henry.  When she saw Risley coming to arrest her, she looked panic stricken.  After Henry berated Risley and he slithered away, as you so succinctly point out Tina, she looked at Henry as if she was seeing his 'craziness' for the first time. At least that's the way I saw it.

Throughout The Tudors, Anne Stanhope was a bitchy conniving adulteress, and I must say I was a bit turned off by her until the end when she went to the burning of Anne Askew.  That whole scene had me crying like a baby. They brought Anne out and she couldn't walk because they had broken her body on the rack.  Stanhope gave them a pouch loaded with gunpowder to be placed around Anne's neck so the burning would be quick.  It was just such a brutal scene. Stanhope sort of redeemed herself in my eyes.  Then the scene with Gardiner.  You have to love that scene.  Even Thomas made me smile when he punched Gardiner.  And didn't he throw him out of the throne room and close the door in his face while everyone watched? Loved it.

Catherine Willoughby was a reformer like her friend Catherine Parr.  They should have replaced the original actress.  We would have figured it out.  Instead they created a divide in Catherine's an Charles' marriage that just was not true.  These two were happily married from everything I have read about them.  They were a love match.  Charles did not kill all those people during the Pilgrimage of Grace.  It was Norfolk who did Henry's bidding at the time.  So the whole premise was false.  There was no little french girl either.  However, I think since the actress who played Catherine wasn't returning for the last season, and Henry Cavill was so good looking, they decided to give him some love scenes; and I enjoyed them all!

I liked the girl who played Elizabeth.  Although I agree she should have been given more lines.  I think Henry looks at Elizabeth knowing he failed her, knowing he failed her mother, and because she reminds him of Anne.  It seems in the show, Henry had many regrets at the end.  As well he should.

*Risley: Forgive me. I kept spelling his name wrong so I decided to use the easier spelling.

November 8, 2010
6:45 pm
Avatar
Lady K
Sydney Australia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 12
Member Since:
August 4, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Laugh Two more weeks until its release on DVD in Australia. Im counting down the days, ive been so good not to watch anything about it on youtube. Im in the process of re watching 1-3

November 8, 2010
7:04 pm
Avatar
Anne
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
September 22, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Welll,it has been some time I've been here due to work.Tina,I am sorry to read about your injuries,how are you?Do you feel better?

 

I think I am going to.. sound terribly repeating if I say once more that Catherine Parr was one of the best parts in Tudors.And as for her historical rivalry with Anne Stanhope,if I am not mistaken they are shown as friends and religious allies(actually,ever since she has her son she seems more interested in religious matters).Does that work as a hint of their later rivalry,since the father of Anne's child is going to marry Catherine.Or,as I imagine,Anne worked as a supplament for the missing Duchess of Suffolk.I mean,Anne is shown within  the Queen's inner circle,as Catherine ought to be shown.Anne is shown as a keen reformer,hiding books,servants with the same ideas,helping Anne Askew,even her defending of those who suffered from the persecutions.But mostly her awesome,cool treatment of Gardiner.Their shared dislike for each other,her making fun of him and in the end where she puts him to her place…I 've read that it was actually Catherine who had an animosity with Gardiner(even though he was her godfather I think)and she actually made fun of him by naming her dog after him.So I guess,she did cover some of Catherine's part…

 Brigite?I didn't buy the whole story but I do enjoy mr CavillWink …And even though through the Tudors we have seen more steamy scenes of him,I think he looked sexier than ever in this scene,without even taking of his shirt…Love him!!!

On the storyline,well it was too cheasy for me,you know one moment I am fighting for my city and then “Oh Charles take me and give me all your wife's old clothes!”.I would have preferred it if they replaced Catherine with the actress who played Brigite,they do look like a little.But actually I would have looved some inreraction of princess Mary with Charles!!!Yes,I know it is totally stupid but blame it on the fact that we didn't get a proper Mary Tudor(Queen of France).It is far less stretched pairing him with the wrong Mary,who is age appropiate and looks like the real one than pairing him with the actual character,who has a different name,a different country where she is married in,looks nothing like the real one and on top of that is nearly 20 years senior than her character(an 18 year old princes)…But this is a rant of old me,so don't pay much attentionSmile

Well,it is clear that for me one of the worst written characters was princess Margaret…Everything about this character was so messy,and I don't think it was that difficult to tell apart the two Marys in a series where the 2/3 of men where called Thomas!!!So I guess I wanted two princesses.One,Margaret,played correctly this time by Gabrielle Anwar,Queen of Scotland,Henry's older and stronger sister,with her own marriage scandals.And second,a Mary,married to the right King,age appropiate,not a murderer,a screaming and whining woman but a loving woman and a good mother.I guess one of the reasons that they had a 30(and more)year old marriage played out in two episodes was because the writers could see that with the mess they made,it didn't work.

 

Although they didn't show much of Kathryn's motivations,miss Merchant managed to give her Kathryn a childlike nature,which added in her already tragic history.At first neither I was satisfied with her casting but as the series went on I realised what gave her Kathryn a soft spot in my heart.This girl,who is pretty much like a small,broken doll,someone too childish and naive fleshed out in the end the most heart shattering Kathryn.Those small things that make me see her like a small sparrow,overwhelmed by the richness of the world,thrown after its flight on the pit with the snakes,to be eaten alive…Anne said “Poor child,it was not her fault either” and she spoke a great truth…Too bad JRM was hotter than ever in season 4 and we didn't get to see her fear,her disgust,a small and frail girl with the mountain of a man Henry was,trying to survive and get pregnant fast,to end her fears and misery..And it is heartbreaking to see how she was used by everyone,especially her husband and Culpepper,the man she loved…

I didn't hate Elizabeth either but I felt that they didn't bother with her much.They just said “Let's throw in a redhead girl and make her appear random on scene”…It is a shame that they put the standart high with Mary and left Elizabeth one,maybe two scenes to show her character.

 

I was also kind of disappointed with Thomas Seymour and it is a shame since they had a handsome and good actor to play the part.

 

And last,but not least,the “ghosts”,I think their approachment seemed to reflect their relationship with Henry while alive.Katherine stays in her place as she did in life,not moving from her post.Anne approaches him,seeks him as she did while alive when she wanted  him,she was always seeking him,running to him.And Jane,she stays back as far as possible,turning from him.So she did while alive,she never let him approach her heart because he knew if he had her heart he would break it.

That's for now,I thinkWinkSmileLaugh

November 9, 2010
3:09 pm
Avatar
Impish_Impulse
US Midwest
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 595
Member Since:
August 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

grumble, let's try this again.

                        survivor ribbon                             

               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

November 9, 2010
3:15 pm
Avatar
Impish_Impulse
US Midwest
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 595
Member Since:
August 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anne said:

And last, but not least, the “ghosts”, I think their approachment seemed to reflect their relationship with Henry while alive. Katherine stays in her place as she did in life, not moving from her post. Anne approaches him, seeks him as she did while alive when she wanted him, she was always seeking him, running to him. And Jane, she stays back as far as possible, turning from him. So she did while alive, she never let him approach her heart because (she) knew if he had her heart, he would break it.

 


Good point; I hadn't thought of those scenes like that. It makes me wonder if Jane was more of a 'martyr' to her faith, dealing with Henry to bear him a (Catholic) son who would lead England back to 'Mother Rome' if Henry didn't. It makes her more palatable to me than just someone grasping after power, and would also explain why her 'ghost' focused solely on the fate of her child. All of them were concerned with the child they'd left behind, but Katharine and Anne also focus on their relationship with Henry. Jane doesn't, and I don't think that was because she was totally happy. It would make sense if it was because she never truly gave nor expected love from Henry, so didn't feel betrayed when she didn't get it until she lay dying.

                        survivor ribbon                             

               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

November 13, 2010
9:33 am
Avatar
Anne
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
September 22, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I agree with your theory of Jane since I have come to believe Jane was not the conniving hungry-power shrew everyone make her to be…As the Tudors portray her  she didn't strike me as happily married to Henry.In fact,even though the writers choose not to expand her character,Annabelle Wallis managed to get through the screen in moments where she seemed so distant with him,sad,as if her responsibilities and her predecessors fates are on her shoulders…Moments like those:

 

http://annabelle-wallis.net/ga…..fullsize=1[Image Can Not Be Found]

[Image Can Not Be Found]http://annabelle-wallis.net/ga…..fullsize=1

 

Yes,she seemed to serve a purpose,because she didn't seemed to be in love with Henry.She was aware of what he was capable to do and knew that her only saving grace was a son.Because the luck of a son was what send Katherine to excile and Anne to the scaffold.And mind you,that whatever she felt for them,Katherine was a Catholic princess and Anne was a Marquess and look where they ended up .Jane had no title and God knows what might happened to her if she fell out of favor or what might happen to her child,if it was a girl.This is mainly one of the reasons why in the series she tries to support Mary and later Elizabeth.

November 13, 2010
9:50 am
Avatar
Anne
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
September 22, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I can't put images in my post…Could somebody help me?

November 13, 2010
4:49 pm
Avatar
TinaII2None
Kentucky
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 393
Member Since:
June 5, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sharon said:

This is the third try…something has eaten my previous responses.

Tina, I hope you are doing better.  Sorry to hear about your fall.

I think Catherine was shocked by the way Henry manipulated her and Risley.*  She thought the problem had been resolved between herself and Henry.  When she saw Risley coming to arrest her, she looked panic stricken.  After Henry berated Risley and he slithered away, as you so succinctly point out Tina, she looked at Henry as if she was seeing his 'craziness' for the first time. At least that's the way I saw it.

Throughout The Tudors, Anne Stanhope was a bitchy conniving adulteress, and I must say I was a bit turned off by her until the end when she went to the burning of Anne Askew.  That whole scene had me crying like a baby. They brought Anne out and she couldn't walk because they had broken her body on the rack.  Stanhope gave them a pouch loaded with gunpowder to be placed around Anne's neck so the burning would be quick.  It was just such a brutal scene. Stanhope sort of redeemed herself in my eyes.  Then the scene with Gardiner.  You have to love that scene.  Even Thomas made me smile when he punched Gardiner.  And didn't he throw him out of the throne room and close the door in his face while everyone watched? Loved it.

Catherine Willoughby was a reformer like her friend Catherine Parr.  They should have replaced the original actress.  We would have figured it out.  Instead they created a divide in Catherine's an Charles' marriage that just was not true.  These two were happily married from everything I have read about them.  They were a love match.  Charles did not kill all those people during the Pilgrimage of Grace.  It was Norfolk who did Henry's bidding at the time.  So the whole premise was false.  There was no little french girl either.  However, I think since the actress who played Catherine wasn't returning for the last season, and Henry Cavill was so good looking, they decided to give him some love scenes; and I enjoyed them all!

I liked the girl who played Elizabeth.  Although I agree she should have been given more lines.  I think Henry looks at Elizabeth knowing he failed her, knowing he failed her mother, and because she reminds him of Anne.  It seems in the show, Henry had many regrets at the end.  As well he should.

*Risley: Forgive me. I kept spelling his name wrong so I decided to use the easier spelling.


Sorry I've been MIA guys. It's been one of those weeks (or two) at work! BUT…I'm going to try to play a bit of catch up here and hope I remember some of the things I saw in the final episode.

Sharon — you're absolutely right about Henry likely having some regrets in the end. I was glad that they didn't end the series with him literally on his death bed. I know they showed Keith Michell on his and in Young Bess we see Charles Laughton on his (with a totally fictionalized moment of him telling everyone that Elizabeth will surprise them all). I liked that moment of his life flashing before him; the setting of the sun, and Death riding towards him (on a pale horse I think the Scriptures say) and reminding me of The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. The way we don't see Death actually strike Henry down, but just to ride up behind him….That was a good scene for me.

Back to Katherine Parr and that scene with her, Henry and Wriothesley — you are so right about her seeing Henry's craziness (or manipulative nature) for the first time. It would have been bad enough marrying this monster because you thought you loved him. She was pretty much forced into it and was trying to make the best of a lousy situation. She tried to strengthen his relationshp with his children; fought for her religious beliefs and a push for the New Learning — and then nearly paid for it with her life. I once heard that before their marriage, Katherine had told Henry she would prefer to be his mistress than his wife. Understandable considering what happened to his wives! But watching those scenes again with her on the brink — it was absolutely heart-wrenching. And back to that look on her face after the failed arrest — you have to wonder if that came close to capturing the real Katherine's feelings. (Also reminded me of when Henry told his court that there were those that had desired him to put Mary to death, and the girl fainting in public). I can't imagine living under such a despot who controlled your life with such authority.

In total agreement with you about Anne Stanhope Seymour — until the scene with Anne Askew. That was a whole other side of the woman I had never considered, but then those final scenes with her and Edward Seymour had me cheering. (Loved seeing Gardiner knocked down a few notches anyway LOL).

I was also glad they did cover the Anne Askew affair. I keep thinking that I saw her portrayed in some Tudor movie or TV series as though she was an old woman of the lower classes, so I was glad to The Tudors had her more like she may have been in reality. I was surprised to see a young vibrant woman daring to step into the pulpit, as well as the broken martyr. Like you, I cried like a baby during her execution. Oh and side note — when I went online to check on any information regarding her torture, I thought I read that when the real Henry was told that was being racked, he ordered an end to it (a little too late since her legs were alreaady damaged), although in the show, he tells the Tower official that it is necessary. I read that a few weeks ago, so I'd have to go back and see if I can find the reference again. But I'm glad they showed her being carried to the Smithfield.

I'll repeat what you already have Sharon — THEY SHOULD HAVE REPLACED THE ORIGINAL CATHERINE WILLOUGHBY. That whole subplot bugged me. On top of that, I hated that she wasn't shown as part of Katherine Parr's inner circle. I would have loved to have had a scene or two of the Queen with those women she trusted and studied with, revealing that these were a new generation of women (unlike Mary's generation with the Old Faith). It just would have given them even more depth — and possibly have given Elizabeth a few more lines too LOL

For the umpteenth time, I have to praise the performance of Sarah Bolger and how she grew into the role. And in a few short scenes, she was able to show us the Mary that would come along as Queen, especially when you heard the determination in her voice about returning England to the Catholic fold. The one thing missing (and in a way, I'm glad it was), was to hear her rant about Anne Boleyn. We didn't get to see bitterness Mary would eventually have towards her half-sister, although she bemoans the fact that the Prince is being raised as a heretic.

And I think that's IT for now. I'm nearly fully recovered from my fall; thankfully didnt have to take any time off from work. Laugh 

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

November 13, 2010
5:42 pm
Avatar
TinaII2None
Kentucky
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 393
Member Since:
June 5, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anne said:

Welll,it has been some time I've been here due to work.Tina,I am sorry to read about your injuries,how are you?Do you feel better?

 

I think I am going to.. sound terribly repeating if I say once more that Catherine Parr was one of the best parts in Tudors.And as for her historical rivalry with Anne Stanhope,if I am not mistaken they are shown as friends and religious allies(actually,ever since she has her son she seems more interested in religious matters).Does that work as a hint of their later rivalry,since the father of Anne's child is going to marry Catherine.Or,as I imagine,Anne worked as a supplament for the missing Duchess of Suffolk.I mean,Anne is shown within  the Queen's inner circle,as Catherine ought to be shown.Anne is shown as a keen reformer,hiding books,servants with the same ideas,helping Anne Askew,even her defending of those who suffered from the persecutions.But mostly her awesome,cool treatment of Gardiner.Their shared dislike for each other,her making fun of him and in the end where she puts him to her place…I 've read that it was actually Catherine who had an animosity with Gardiner(even though he was her godfather I think)and she actually made fun of him by naming her dog after him.So I guess,she did cover some of Catherine's part…

 Brigite?I didn't buy the whole story but I do enjoy mr CavillWink …And even though through the Tudors we have seen more steamy scenes of him,I think he looked sexier than ever in this scene,without even taking of his shirt…Love him!!!

On the storyline,well it was too cheasy for me,you know one moment I am fighting for my city and then “Oh Charles take me and give me all your wife's old clothes!”.I would have preferred it if they replaced Catherine with the actress who played Brigite,they do look like a little.But actually I would have looved some inreraction of princess Mary with Charles!!!Yes,I know it is totally stupid but blame it on the fact that we didn't get a proper Mary Tudor(Queen of France).It is far less stretched pairing him with the wrong Mary,who is age appropiate and looks like the real one than pairing him with the actual character,who has a different name,a different country where she is married in,looks nothing like the real one and on top of that is nearly 20 years senior than her character(an 18 year old princes)…But this is a rant of old me,so don't pay much attentionSmile

Well,it is clear that for me one of the worst written characters was princess Margaret…Everything about this character was so messy,and I don't think it was that difficult to tell apart the two Marys in a series where the 2/3 of men where called Thomas!!!So I guess I wanted two princesses.One,Margaret,played correctly this time by Gabrielle Anwar,Queen of Scotland,Henry's older and stronger sister,with her own marriage scandals.And second,a Mary,married to the right King,age appropiate,not a murderer,a screaming and whining woman but a loving woman and a good mother.I guess one of the reasons that they had a 30(and more)year old marriage played out in two episodes was because the writers could see that with the mess they made,it didn't work. 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Anne — I am doing better, thank you for asking. I went to see a doctor and thankfully nothing was broken; just strained, so muscle relaxers and something to help me rest were what I needed! Unfortunately we've been swamped at work. For those of you that don't know, I'm a crime scene technician (and no, it's NOTHING like CSI), and it's been busy. One reason why I haven't been online much is that in addition to my normal 40 hour work weeks, I'll have more than FIFTY hours of Overtime over a 2 week period! So you can see why I've missed you guys. I have to leave for work shortly tonight, so I'm only going to offer a few comments to your post.
I agree with you — Joely Richardson's contribution was one of the best of the series, and I was glad to finally see some casting that was close to the real woman and not what we've had in the past (with the possible exception of Deborah Kerr). I think you're right about what we see between Katherine and Anne Stanhope — the future rivalry and all, but we see them as sharing a common faith, and part of (as I've mentioned before) that inner circle of the Queen's women. I'm sorry the screenwriters and producers missed out on all the opportunities. This would have even been a good time to have had Elizabeth interact more and allow that character to have more to do, by showing how she was raised in the Reformer beliefs as opposed to Mary's Catholic ones. That might have set up (although we wouldn't see it in a future show) what would come in the future as the daughters of Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn become rivals. Of course we'd be missing Lady Jane Grey thanks to the producers, but Elizabeth could have made a good stand-in, just as Anne Stanhope (as you mentioned) seems to have been Catherine Willoughby's.

Since my time's running out (trying to type, look at the clock and keep lucid LOL), let me touch on what you mentioned about the King's sisters — or SISTER thanks to the series. Having an opportunity to watch the first season on Netflix, the whole Margaret story still didn't click with me, no more than it did the first time around. You are so right! They have umpteen million guys (LOL) with the first name of Thomas or Edward and we kept them sorted out. But we're so “stupid” the producers figure we can't tell the difference between Henry's sister Mary and his daughter Mary. Give me a break! Not only did they manage to wipe out the entire Mary Tudor as Queen of France and Duchess of Suffolk, but her entire line — Frances Brandon Grey, Jane Grey….Like you, I would have liked to have seen both sisters shown in good subplots. Mary Tudor Brandon is something of a cipher to me at times, although there are often hints in history that her Tudor bloodline would reveal itself — defying her brother, telling him what she thought of Anne Boleyn. (And she is so beautiful in her portraits). And then, again as you said, the REAL Margaret could have been given her own great storyline. I mean she was fairly lusty herself with…how many husbands? Three? Four? If the series needed an excuse for more sex, they would have gotten it.

Gabrielle Anwar just never struck the right chord with me. I think I mentioned this in another thread, but sometimes she pranced around with the manners of a barmaid, her gown down off her shoulders in a very unflattering way. (Whereas Natalie Dormer could also wear off the shoulder gowns and look elegant, and move through a room as though she was born a princess). I might have been more accepting had she played the REAL Margaret, which might have given her a chance to be lustful and sexy, but her entire storyline was just a mess, to me anyway. And I never believed her and Henry Cavill together (and I LOVE ME SOME HENRY CAVILL LOL).

How much cooler it would have been to see Mary as widowed Queen, fighting off the advances of Francis I, and pleading with Charles Brandon — her true love — to marry her, and then the two of them having to battle Henry's wrath and receive his eventual forgiveness. Or Mary battling with her brother over Anne Boleyn (I've read that Mary hated her). Yeah, that might have worked Laugh … instead of fictionalized scenes with Thomas Tallis having a gay relationship with what's his name or the “fake” Margaret Tudor offing her husband as though she was channeling a Borgia!

And I'll touch on a few of your other comments when I can! LaughLaughLaugh

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

November 14, 2010
1:58 pm
Avatar
TinaII2None
Kentucky
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 393
Member Since:
June 5, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Impish_Impulse said:  


Good point; I hadn't thought of those scenes like that. It makes me wonder if Jane was more of a 'martyr' to her faith, dealing with Henry to bear him a (Catholic) son who would lead England back to 'Mother Rome' if Henry didn't. It makes her more palatable to me than just someone grasping after power, and would also explain why her 'ghost' focused solely on the fate of her child. All of them were concerned with the child they'd left behind, but Katharine and Anne also focus on their relationship with Henry. Jane doesn't, and I don't think that was because she was totally happy. It would make sense if it was because she never truly gave nor expected love from Henry, so didn't feel betrayed when she didn't get it until she lay dying.


I had never thought of it that way before so what an interesting take, and you're right — I hadn't realized that Jane's sole reason for “returning” seems to have been to ask for the welfare of her son and nothing else. As far as I can remember, the words “I loved you” never crossed her lips but of course if the spirits are part of Henry's imagination, then Jane's haunting represents…what? Henry knowing that he has treated his son almost similar to how his father treated him? That seeking the desired son killed the woman he claims to have loved above all his Queens?

I vaguely remember a scene in Season Three where Henry asking Jane if she was with child yet, and on hearing her 'no' seemed to be utterly disgusted with her response. That would be enough to drive any woman to desperation, especially when you consider what he's already done with two wives.

Jane did her duty and died for it. Nah, don't think I'd be overly thrilled with him either, despite his tears over the deathbed.

One thing — has nothing to do with Jane — that I had been thinking about and forgot to mention in my other posts: the scene when Charles Brandon comes to court and Henry attempts to heal him. Remember there was another scene earlier in — I think it was Season 4, when a crowd of the sick and beggars meet Henry as he prepares to depart the court, and he takes the time to touch many of them. I think that at the time, the King (or Queen) was supposed to have the power of healing by the laying on of hands (as the Scriptures call it). There is a look on Henry's face as though he believes that he DOES have the power simply because he is head of the Church and (in his mind) God's true representative on Earth. But whereas those outside the gate were the faceless poor, Charles is his oldest and dearest friend, and I'm sure Henry wondered why he couldn't save the man (Thinking back to what Henry said after telling Charles to kneel, I don't remember him asking for Charles' healing “in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost” or “in the Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who died for all our sins…” He ordered Charles healed in the name of Henry, Supreme Head of the Church of England and King. Just more of Henry's own god complex I guess).

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

November 15, 2010
12:08 pm
Avatar
Sharon
Binghamton, NY
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2115
Member Since:
February 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

 TinaII2None said:


One thing — has nothing to do with Jane — that I had been thinking about and forgot to mention in my other posts: the scene when Charles Brandon comes to court and Henry attempts to heal him. Remember there was another scene earlier in — I think it was Season 4, when a crowd of the sick and beggars meet Henry as he prepares to depart the court, and he takes the time to touch many of them. I think that at the time, the King (or Queen) was supposed to have the power of healing by the laying on of hands (as the Scriptures call it). There is a look on Henry's face as though he believes that he DOES have the power simply because he is head of the Church and (in his mind) God's true representative on Earth. But whereas those outside the gate were the faceless poor, Charles is his oldest and dearest friend, and I'm sure Henry wondered why he couldn't save the man (Thinking back to what Henry said after telling Charles to kneel, I don't remember him asking for Charles' healing “in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost” or “in the Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who died for all our sins…” He ordered Charles healed in the name of Henry, Supreme Head of the Church of England and King. Just more of Henry's own god complex I guess).


Anne said:

I can't put images in my post…Could somebody help me?


Tina; That hands on healing thing goes back to Edward the Confessor. (in England.)  He supposedly cured a case of Scrofula which is a disfiguring form of TB.  The custom grew and the kings and queens of England all participated, up until 1714 when the custom was abandoned.   On Good Friday, rings would be blessed, and handed out to the people by Henry VIII. These rings were supposed to heal epilepsy.  Charles II was said to have touched more than 92,000 victims in a four year period. (It seems the touching took on more illnesses as time went on) Monarchs underlined their authority by reminding the people that their right to rule, as well as their gift of healing, was God-given and was derived from the people.
 I think the real Henry would have remembered God when trying to heal Charles. I'll give him a little credit. He would have tried with all of his heart to cure his best friend. These kings believed in their divine right to rule and to heal. Although I have read a story…and it may be just a story…that Henry II faked a healing of scrofula to prove to his people that he had the ability to heal.

Poor Charles.  If I remember that scene correctly, Charles could barely walk, and Henry made him get down on his knees. Charles must have been thinking…”Thank God, this is almost over.”

Anne, Sorry we are all having a problem posting images.

I love the way you saw the ghost scenes with the wives. Now it seems so obvious that that's what it was.  Henry's conscience was working overtime at the end, huh?  My thoughts on Jane have been changing for a while.  I don't think she was the grasping type of woman that history portrays her as being.  (but that is a topic for another time)  When Henry saw her at the end of The Tudors, she was not the woman he had married.  She let him have it with both barrels. I think in the end Henry was seeing that he was bringing up his son in the same manner his father had brought him up.  He had detested the short leash Henry VII placed around his neck, and yet, he had done the same thing to Edward. He also saw that his precious Jane did not love him.  I think she married him because…(A) you don't say no to Henry, and (B) She did what her whole family pushed her to do. She didn't have years to get used to Henry and to love him as Anne and Katherine had.  She had months at the most. This was a totally different Henry than the one his previous wives had loved.  She didn't approach him because she didn't want to.  She had never wanted to.  She was holding on to Edward and moving him away from Henry the whole time. 

November 20, 2010
4:21 pm
Avatar
TinaII2None
Kentucky
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 393
Member Since:
June 5, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sharon said:


Tina; That hands on healing thing goes back to Edward the Confessor. (in England.)  He supposedly cured a case of Scrofula which is a disfiguring form of TB.  The custom grew and the kings and queens of England all participated, up until 1714 when the custom was abandoned.   On Good Friday, rings would be blessed, and handed out to the people by Henry VIII. These rings were supposed to heal epilepsy.  Charles II was said to have touched more than 92,000 victims in a four year period. (It seems the touching took on more illnesses as time went on) Monarchs underlined their authority by reminding the people that their right to rule, as well as their gift of healing, was God-given and was derived from the people.
 I think the real Henry would have remembered God when trying to heal Charles. I'll give him a little credit. He would have tried with all of his heart to cure his best friend. These kings believed in their divine right to rule and to heal. Although I have read a story…and it may be just a story…that Henry II faked a healing of scrofula to prove to his people that he had the ability to heal.
Poor Charles.  If I remember that scene correctly, Charles could barely walk, and Henry made him get down on his knees. Charles must have been thinking…”Thank God, this is almost over.”

Anne, Sorry we are all having a problem posting images.

I love the way you saw the ghost scenes with the wives. Now it seems so obvious that that's what it was.  Henry's conscience was working overtime at the end, huh?  My thoughts on Jane have been changing for a while.  I don't think she was the grasping type of woman that history portrays her as being.  (but that is a topic for another time)  When Henry saw her at the end of The Tudors, she was not the woman he had married.  She let him have it with both barrels. I think in the end Henry was seeing that he was bringing up his son in the same manner his father had brought him up.  He had detested the short leash Henry VII placed around his neck, and yet, he had done the same thing to Edward. He also saw that his precious Jane did not love him.  I think she married him because…(A) you don't say no to Henry, and (B) She did what her whole family pushed her to do. She didn't have years to get used to Henry and to love him as Anne and Katherine had.  She had months at the most. This was a totally different Henry than the one his previous wives had loved.  She didn't approach him because she didn't want to.  She had never wanted to.  She was holding on to Edward and moving him away from Henry the whole time. 


Oh Sharon — I was thinking the same thing when I saw Charles make that painful descent to his knees. I felt so bad for him because you'd think (just once) even Henry would have given such a loyal servant a break. (I remember hearing the story of an elderly Benjamin Disraeli being permitted to sit in Victoria's presence when they consulted together; BUT…he would always make sure the chair was removed so no one could accuse him of sitting when with the Queen).

I had heard of the royal laying on of hands, but wasn't all that familiar with the history of the practice. Thanks for that!

I love your take on Ghost Jane. Seems that for the first time in her “life”, she was finally standing up to one of the men who had controlled her. I can't say I know as much about the real Jane as I would like. We've seen her portrayed as brainless wonder, meek to the point of boring, even guilt-ridden, and in some reports, as clever and duplicitous as her brothers. We've seen Henry portrayed as being obsessed with her; passionately in love with her; willing to kill one wife to obtain her; and yes, orders that he be buried beside her. I don't know the truth of it, but I'd love to know more. But Ghost Jane in that last episode — whether real ghost or Henry's conscious — DID give it to him whether he wanted the truth or not, made him see his faults and his errors, and that the long-desired son would never live up to Henry's dreams because he wouldn't be around to fulfill them.    

Oh and on a side note: I just finished up the Elizabeth miniseries with Helen Mirren, and found it ironic that in what I'm guessing was the main throne room, on the wall behind her, was the famous painting (Holbein?) of Henry VIII, Henry VII, Elizabeth of York and Jane Seymour. And yet here sat Elizabeth, the daughter of a woman many wanted to erase out of history if it was possible, and the daughter of the woman Jane replaced. I just thought it was interesting. (I know Elizabeth was young when Jane was Queen, but I wonder what she thought of the woman, or what she put together later when she knew some of the circumstances). Don't mind me now — just rambling! Laugh

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

November 21, 2010
8:49 am
Avatar
Anne
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 92
Member Since:
September 22, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It has been a time since I have been able to write but here I am!!!Tina,it is nice to hear that you are better and that there wasn't any serious damage….I hope you are better by now!!!

Onto the series,Sharon I also think that this scene with Charles,served to show where his loyalty lied.Through the series,Charles was constantly thrown into the power struggle of the court factions.But in this scene,his relationship with Henry is played in front of our eyes.He stood by Henry and always felt at his debt.He allies himself first with the Boleyns,in order to repair his relationship with Henry,he is turned against them when he sees them as danger to Henry and England and allies himself with Cromwell and later turns against him because he sees him as the reason behind Henry's monstrous reign…But in the end we see that Charles is only a knight of older times,who sees his king and country as something sacred and to be protected.And given the fact that he is also his best friend make him act first at Henry's interests and then at what he should have done…All in all,he lived his life trying to make right where Henry couldn't…He never saw or prefered not to see how Henry was wrong,since he believed in him and that Kings are not wrong.

And Tina,on Margaret,indeed she reminded me a barmaid,a country wench with her gowns and manners…They wrote Margaret as a whinny,spoiled brat,with no class at all.When she spoke of Anne as a “cheap nothing” I was snickering while I remember the classy princess throwing glasses,screaming and getting wild like a barmaid in a boat…Both Mary and Margaret Tudor must have been spinning in their graves everytime she threw a fit…And I won't touch the miscast…Cavill looked more like her toyboy than the man she actually loved and wanted.And while M.D.Kennedy and JRMeyers looked like they had a big age gap(I blame that on the fact that JRM looked too young in season 1,even for Anne),they passed it through as a couple married and loved for years,in a classy and dignified way…But it seemed so bad for Cavill and Anwar because he acted like a lust-driven youth(but I like that look on himWink) and she like a conniving and sex-driven spoiled old-maid(sorry for the language but her reaction to Charles wasn't out of love or genuine lust,she seemed desperate).Unlike the real couple,there was no genuine affection between them,neither chemistry so their story was cut in 2 or 3 episodes.Thus,the whole Brandon/Grey line was chopped.But at least this story gave Charles the opportunity to grow up and became a true Duke…And since Catherine(Brook in the series)started as a Catholic against the Boleyns,she was propably serving the purpose of giving Charles a more appropriate wife,like the real Mary might have been since Margaret/Mary was pretty much a fiasko…

I have seen those series but never really paid attention to the painting!Next time I 'll look for it.As for Elizabeth and Jane,I am not sure.Elizabeth seemed to have good relations with the Seymours and generally considered them family,so I guess that she harbored no ill-feelings for Jane.Afterall she had seen first hand that no wife of her father had managed to be happy

November 21, 2010
9:40 pm
Avatar
Impish_Impulse
US Midwest
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 595
Member Since:
August 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anne said:

Elizabeth seemed to have good relations with the Seymours and generally considered them family, so I guess that she harbored no ill-feelings for Jane. After all, she had seen firsthand that no wife of her father had managed to be happy.


She was also only 4 when Jane died, so she may not have remembered much about her firsthand. She was also treated as well as one could expect under the circumstances, being close to her little brother and sharing the same education and religious upbringing. She was closer in age and beliefs to Edward than Mary as well.

                        survivor ribbon                             

               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

January 3, 2011
7:13 pm
Avatar
TinaII2None
Kentucky
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 393
Member Since:
June 5, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well, here it is the last day of my vacation, I'm playing catchup and then had to get a new password to even post on the forum. What a way to end my final night before hitting the grind again.

Anyway, Anne I just had to add to your comment about Margaret (which was in reply to my own). I was printing up a pic of Anwar and the real Margaret and Mary Rose for a trivia contest I was having for my “Tudor” Christmas Eve party and was just amazed at how badly miscast this one was. I know we've all commented on JRM but even in the end, he captured enough of the real Henry that I could live with it and be content. I'm still not sure how to take Anwar, and I still don't understand why they had to (poorly) combine the Tudor sisters into one character. (Yeah, I know, I know — supposedly they didn't think we could keep track of two characters named Mary, despite the years separating them). But what a couple of subplots they could have had: scandalous and much-married Margaret, Queen of Scotland, and Mary Rose Queen of France, defying her brother to marry the man she loved. And if they thought we were too stupid to figure out that we had two Marys, we could have called Henry's sister Mary Rose and his daughter Mary. End of problem! Laugh

 

Anne said:

And Tina,on Margaret,indeed she reminded me a barmaid,a country wench with her gowns and manners…They wrote Margaret as a whinny,spoiled brat,with no class at all.When she spoke of Anne as a “cheap nothing” I was snickering while I remember the classy princess throwing glasses,screaming and getting wild like a barmaid in a boat…Both Mary and Margaret Tudor must have been spinning in their graves everytime she threw a fit…And I won't touch the miscast…Cavill looked more like her toyboy than the man she actually loved and wanted.And while M.D.Kennedy and JRMeyers looked like they had a big age gap(I blame that on the fact that JRM looked too young in season 1,even for Anne),they passed it through as a couple married and loved for years,in a classy and dignified way…But it seemed so bad for Cavill and Anwar because he acted like a lust-driven youth(but I like that look on himWink) and she like a conniving and sex-driven spoiled old-maid(sorry for the language but her reaction to Charles wasn't out of love or genuine lust,she seemed desperate).Unlike the real couple,there was no genuine affection between them,neither chemistry so their story was cut in 2 or 3 episodes.Thus,the whole Brandon/Grey line was chopped.But at least this story gave Charles the opportunity to grow up and became a true Duke…And since Catherine(Brook in the series)started as a Catholic against the Boleyns,she was propably serving the purpose of giving Charles a more appropriate wife,like the real Mary might have been since Margaret/Mary was pretty much a fiasko…

I have seen those series but never really paid attention to the painting!Next time I 'll look for it.As for Elizabeth and Jane,I am not sure.Elizabeth seemed to have good relations with the Seymours and generally considered them family,so I guess that she harbored no ill-feelings for Jane.Afterall she had seen first hand that no wife of her father had managed to be happy


Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 214

Currently Online:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Anyanka: 2337

Boleyn: 2285

Sharon: 2115

Bella44: 933

DuchessofBrittany: 846

Mya Elise: 781

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 0

Members: 427592

Moderators: 0

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 13

Topics: 1712

Posts: 23076

Newest Members:

DennisDorie, vitushatault, oghmaniusVom, Urocchxae, Puimignog, Emma3456

Administrators: Claire: 959