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A new look on Elizabeth's feelings for her father
April 12, 2011
9:58 pm
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Anyanka
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La Belle Creole said:

Anyanka said:


 


Fear?? Possibly but definately disillusionment.

Here was a man who had spent 6  years trying to win her, and far as we know, had been faithful to her for that time…and now he's off skirt-chasing as soon as she was pregnant.
 

She may have thought he had changed his spots because of  thier love but to discover he was still a player would have wounded her deeply.


I think Anne was afraid because she was an intelligent woman.  Anybody living closely or working closely to Henry at this stage of his life should have feared him.
 

Some psychologists regard fear as a secondary emotion, that is, a response to other (primary feelings.)  People can become angry after they've been scared, or hurt.  I think Anne loved Henry and was hurt and humiliated by his perfidy, but I think she was also frightened.  She'd ridden the path beside him, watched him cast off old friends, loyal ministers, and his own devoted family.  All these individuals had been Henry's favorites at one time or other. 

 Anne was an experienced courtier; her own sister had been Francis I's mistress and Henry's mistress.  I'm sure Henry did a great job convincing her she was his one true love, but I don't see how she expected his eternal fidelity when he'd catted around on Katherine for years. 

I really think Henry's infidelities terrified Anne because they confirmed her hold on him was slipping.  His interest in her was waning.  Even if Anne had obliged him with a prince, he still would have catted around, she still would have loathed it, but she might have been less angry because she didn't need to fear his loss of interest. 

Please don't get me wrong; she had every right to be disgusted.  She had every reason to be frightened.  But the open displays of reproach didn't do her or her family any good.  


It's not a  case of either/or…Most people have more than 2 emotions when faced with a situation  especially one where you are not the bystander as Anne was in these cases.

 

Fear…I've already said yes..she possibly felt fear.

 

Disillusionment….heck yes! For many years Henry had proclaimed loyalty both sexually and emotionally to Anne. His sniffing round other women would have hurt her on a very personal level when she was pregnant.

 

Disgusted…Katherine was brought up in a court where men had thier ” needs” catered for while thier wives were indisposed…Katherine knew these liasions where temporary. Anne never had to deal with the idea of her husband straying as an abstract…until it hapened in reality. Anne had been lead to believe H8 would never stray.

 

Horrifed; Henry had declared undying love too Anne and now he's straying….suddendly Anne is not the centre of Henry's attention..

 

These emotions and more fuel the early days of Henry's and Anne's relationship…

It's always bunnies.

April 13, 2011
12:16 pm
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Lexy said:

The farewell scene in the finale episode made me reconsider what I formerly believed to be a reltionship of adoration toward the father. That cold look of Elizabeth… Her firm voice, her absence of tears and her way to leave without a last look… Is it possible that all the relatonship, love and so on Liz was supposed to have for her father was made up for the sake of her right on the throne and her popularity? Propaganda to make her the true red haired heiress facing rivals? While she kept a respectful cold grudge toward Henry  after all, she didn't wore his portrait on her finger, painting as if she was being kissed by her important someone, until her death)

What is your opinion about this?


I think she loved her father.  She spoke highly of him always.  She did use his name throughout her reign when she thought a point would come across better if she mentioned him.  She was a very intelligent woman living in a time when men ruled.  In England Henry was considered to be a great ruler.  She knew mentioning him would get the proper response she required. She knew the people loved him. You could say she used her father as propaganda. She certainly never let people forget she was Henry's daughter.  She also used his name because she was proud of the King he was.

I think Henry was one of the reasons she never married.  She saw how a husband could mistreat a wife, even go so far as to kill her, and get away with it. She would not allow herself to be put into a position where a man could destroy her.  In that respect she learned a valuable lesson from him. Probably not a lesson he meant her to pick up.

You are talking about the scene in The Tudors, right?  My take was she was not going to show any emotion in front of the rest of her family and the court.  And she may have been a little angry.  Here is Henry sick and probably dying, but instead of wanting his family with him, he did what he always did to them, he sent them away. 

April 13, 2011
1:01 pm
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Anyanka said:


It's not a  case of either/or…Most people have more than 2 emotions when faced with a situation  especially one where you are not the bystander as Anne was in these cases.
 

Fear…I've already said yes..she possibly felt fear.

 

Disillusionment….heck yes! For many years Henry had proclaimed loyalty both sexually and emotionally to Anne. His sniffing round other women would have hurt her on a very personal level when she was pregnant.

 

Disgusted…Katherine was brought up in a court where men had thier ” needs” catered for while thier wives were indisposed…Katherine knew these liasions where temporary. Anne never had to deal with the idea of her husband straying as an abstract…until it hapened in reality. Anne had been lead to believe H8 would never stray.

 

Horrifed; Henry had declared undying love too Anne and now he's straying….suddendly Anne is not the centre of Henry's attention..

 

These emotions and more fuel the early days of Henry's and Anne's relationship…


I dont see how a seasoned courtier so politically savvy as Anne Boleyn could have been led to believe H8 would never stray.  She knew for a fact the man stepped out on his first wife repeatedly.  He'd involved himself in a double adulterous affair with Anne's own sister. Even if she accepted the nonsense that Catherine of Aragon was not Henry's wife, the man still had affairs with other women, including married women. 

Anne was also brought up at court and she was aware, I'm certain, of married men having casual affairs and even keeping full-time mistresses.  I'm sure Henry sweet-talked her and stroked her vanity into believing he would be ever true to her and maybe she did believe it, but given his womanizing past, was it really so shocking and upsetting to discover he lied?

I think Anne was upset (and rightly so) because she realized sociopathic Henry had tricked her.  After all the pretty letters, gifts, sweet talk, and romantic gestures he'd employed to win her heart and convince her she was the love of his life, in the end he treated her no better than his previous wife and past mistresses.

Henry's infidelities were probably even scarier to Anne because, well, what happened to Katherine of Aragon once Henry and Anne consummated their relationship and Anne conceived?  Bye-bye, Katherine.  After Elizabeth's brith, Anne must have dreaded any day she'd be cast aside by Henry and replaced by a new, pregnant would-be queen.  There's a gruesome poetic justice to it; Anne cooperated in the system that undermined Katherine and now found herself in Katherine's former position with none of Katherine's advantages. 

April 13, 2011
1:08 pm
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Sharon said:

Lexy said:

The farewell scene in the finale episode made me reconsider what I formerly believed to be a reltionship of adoration toward the father. That cold look of Elizabeth… Her firm voice, her absence of tears and her way to leave without a last look… Is it possible that all the relatonship, love and so on Liz was supposed to have for her father was made up for the sake of her right on the throne and her popularity? Propaganda to make her the true red haired heiress facing rivals? While she kept a respectful cold grudge toward Henry  after all, she didn't wore his portrait on her finger, painting as if she was being kissed by her important someone, until her death)

What is your opinion about this?


I think she loved her father.  She spoke highly of him always.  She did use his name throughout her reign when she thought a point would come across better if she mentioned him.  She was a very intelligent woman living in a time when men ruled.  In England Henry was considered to be a great ruler.  She knew mentioning him would get the proper response she required. She knew the people loved him. You could say she used her father as propaganda. She certainly never let people forget she was Henry's daughter.  She also used his name because she was proud of the King he was.

I think Henry was one of the reasons she never married.  She saw how a husband could mistreat a wife, even go so far as to kill her, and get away with it. She would not allow herself to be put into a position where a man could destroy her.  In that respect she learned a valuable lesson from him. Probably not a lesson he meant her to pick up.

You are talking about the scene in The Tudors, right?  My take was she was not going to show any emotion in front of the rest of her family and the court.  And she may have been a little angry.  Here is Henry sick and probably dying, but instead of wanting his family with him, he did what he always did to them, he sent them away. 


I caught that clip of Henry bidding his children farewell.  Frankly, I don't blame Elizabeth for calmly leaving.  I mean, come on, the man neglected her most of her life and the only thing he has to say to her before he passes on is “Be a good sister and a loyal subject to your brother.”  What can one really say or think about such a thing?  He treated her more like a subject than a child, and Elizabeth responded like a subject. 

April 13, 2011
1:15 pm
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I'm a family lawyer and time and time again I see women who are 'the other woman' marry their man and have him cheat on them (and to be fair it does happen the other way as well). In England the divorce rate for second marriages is higher than first marriages. Nobody allows themselves to believe it will happen to them. They go into a marriage always thinking they are different, that he'll never do that to them and that they will 'change him'. In my experience human beings rarely change; they just adapt. But I don't think it's inconceivable that Anne thought Henry would be faithful to her, because basic human nature hasn't changed that much. We believe what we want to believe.

April 13, 2011
1:21 pm
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Bill1978 said:

This is the one thing that always make me want to yell at the screen when watching anything to do with Anne. She knew that Henry was a husband who cheated, it's how she got to the position she was in. To expect him to just stop because he is now with her is very arrogant and very hypocritical. But then the whole court was hypocritical by saying it was alright for the King to sleep around, but not the Queen.


What is hypocritical or arrogant about a woman expecting what a man has promised her….fidelity?  He wasn't just with her. For seven years Anne was his only love. After that long a period, heck, I might have believed him. Why shouldn't she have expected him to keep his promise?  She was pregnant with his child, the thing he claimed to want most in the world besides her.  As far as Anne knowing about his cheating on Katherine, she wouldn't have equated that situation to hers.  Yes, he had always cheated on Katherine but in all the time Anne had been with Henry there had been no one else but her.

April 13, 2011
1:52 pm
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Louise said:

I'm a family lawyer and time and time again I see women who are 'the other woman' marry their man and have him cheat on them (and to be fair it does happen the other way as well). In England the divorce rate for second marriages is higher than first marriages. Nobody allows themselves to believe it will happen to them. They go into a marriage always thinking they are different, that he'll never do that to them and that they will 'change him'. In my experience human beings rarely change; they just adapt. But I don't think it's inconceivable that Anne thought Henry would be faithful to her, because basic human nature hasn't changed that much. We believe what we want to believe.


Hi, Louise.  Marriage statistics in the U.S. are the same. Secondary marriages are more likely to fail than first marriages.  And leopards don't normally change their spots. 

I'll buy that Anne Boleyn wanted to believe Henry would be true to her.  I could see her being horrified and outraged, say, when she discovered the first affair.  After that, though, why all the drama?  She was stuck with Henry until he was done with her.  She had to know she was losing influence with Henry and that the disruptive behavior would just sink her lower into his bad graces.  Anne didn't seem to have the best grasp of “damage control.”  

It's also sort of sick that Henry's criminal prosecution of Anne involved sham charges of adultery and incest.  According to Henry's own “rules,” he was guilty of both!  He claimed Katherine of Aragon was his sister (according to scripture.)  His relationship with Mary Boleyn confirms his willingness to commit adultery.  I realize he's male and king of England, but in the present day, he really comes across as a laughing stock.  He married his brother's wife.  He married his ex-mistress's (a married lady, by whom he may have fathered children) sister. 

April 13, 2011
2:23 pm
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Sharon said:

Bill1978 said:

This is the one thing that always make me want to yell at the screen when watching anything to do with Anne. She knew that Henry was a husband who cheated, it's how she got to the position she was in. To expect him to just stop because he is now with her is very arrogant and very hypocritical. But then the whole court was hypocritical by saying it was alright for the King to sleep around, but not the Queen.


What is hypocritical or arrogant about a woman expecting what a man has promised her….fidelity?  He wasn't just with her. For seven years Anne was his only love. After that long a period, heck, I might have believed him. Why shouldn't she have expected him to keep his promise?  She was pregnant with his child, the thing he claimed to want most in the world besides her.  As far as Anne knowing about his cheating on Katherine, she wouldn't have equated that situation to hers.  Yes, he had always cheated on Katherine but in all the time Anne had been with Henry there had been no one else but her.

 

Anne may have been Henry's only love for seven years, but she was not the only woman in his life.  He was still wed to Katherine of Aragon and seeking an anullment.  It behooved his image to promote Anne as his beloved, an honorable lady of a respectable family, whom he wished to wed and to whom he was faithful, as opposed to playing the field.  It is possible he also fathered illegitimate children through some other more casual relationships.  Claire posted an article about them at The Elizabeth Files.

Once Henry got his anullment and got his new, pregnant wife, and a new, unwanted daughter, Henry had nothing to gain by his “good behavior.”  Apparently he lacked the sense to understand his catting around stressed his wife and perhaps impacted her final miscarriage.  Maybe he even wanted her to miscarry (so he could seek greener pastures.) 

I agree Anne seemed to expect different treatment than Katherine.  She certainly received it.

April 14, 2011
7:41 pm
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Louise said:

I'm a family lawyer and time and time again I see women who are 'the other woman' marry their man and have him cheat on them (and to be fair it does happen the other way as well). In England the divorce rate for second marriages is higher than first marriages. Nobody allows themselves to believe it will happen to them. They go into a marriage always thinking they are different, that he'll never do that to them and that they will 'change him'. In my experience human beings rarely change; they just adapt. But I don't think it's inconceivable that Anne thought Henry would be faithful to her, because basic human nature hasn't changed that much. We believe what we want to believe.


oh! you know my father and his second and third wives then…….LOL!Wink

DF cheated on DM with SM1. SM1 cheated on DF while DF ws cheating with SM2…..

The old adage ” When a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy” is nearly always true….

It's always bunnies.

August 17, 2011
12:49 pm
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MegC said:

If I were Elizabeth (and when I look at these questions, I try to look at it from that person’s point of view), I would have such conflicting feelings about my father.  I think, on one hand, that when Henry wanted to be affectionate, he certainly could and probably was with all of his children.  She probably had warm memories of the times when he doted on his children and showed them affection and pride in their accomplishments and abilities.
But I don’t think she would ever be able to forget that he murdered her mother or all those years when he wanted nothing to do with her.  Or all those years when he jerked her around and used her as a pawn…now you’re a princess; now you’re not.  When Henry died, Elizabeth was 13/14 years old.  She was well-educated and highly intelligent.  She understood what was going on and probably had more than a little resentment built up by the time Henry died.
Probably she wound up developing a strange respect for her father in the areas where he deserved it, and used his image where she deemed it necessary.   But I have no doubt in my mind that the reason why Elizabeth never married was because of Henry and her relationship with him (or lack thereof).

Royal or no, no child wants to feel unloved by a parent.  I believe Elizabeth wanted Henry’s love, but I also believe she knew she could not have it.  Unlike Anne, she didn’t throw tantrums.  She simply withdrew.  I’ve known “throwaway children” and the loss of an actual family unit is a devastating blow to these kids even when they grown up.  I imagine every victory Elizabeth won, every precedent she set as Queen of England, was as much to spit in Henry’s eye as it was for her own glory.
Since Henry could not truly love and welcome Elizabeth in his life, the least he could have done was spare the Boleyns so she’d have some family.  In the end, Henry was all Elizabeth had and he repeatedly neglected her and rejected her.  *grinds teeth*  I loathe that man. 

August 17, 2011
12:49 pm
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We must be carefull not to view Henry the 8th outside of his place in history and his position of King of England.  Loathing him for the things that he rightfully did to secure stability in England and launch it into a European Super Power is misplaced.
Elizabeth truly loved her Father Henry, and the best way to see this is her rule and how she handled it.  First off she was well aware of her Fathers tactics of using marriages for politics within the realm (uniting with powerfull connected families) to create unity and shore up his position, or to cement an alliance abroad for as long as it was needed for England.  Elizabeth used the idea of marriage for alliances that benefited England, that is the reason she became the “Virgin” Queen.  This was the next evolution of what her father taught her, whom she loved very much btw and there is much historical evidence of this.  When a Monarch can have affairs with others whenever they pleased it seems pretty silly for us to believe that love was the first prerequisite of whom the Monarches chose to marry.  It was the political gain that came first, always, always.
Another thing that Elizabeth borrowed from her father was his shaping of the Church of England, but what she perfected because of her sex was the ability to not need true spiritual devotion from her subjects.  She settled for a soft submission of  Catholic rights being done privately for those who wished to continue to worship in that regard, but openly they were a Protestant Nation free of Vatican control.  Where Henry was trapped in the Alpha Male all or nothing position, Elizabeth was able to use her Sex to claim that she is but a mere woman and wouldn’t begin to judge what is in the hearts of men.  She was smart enough to know that England needed to stay removed from Vatican control, but that being totalitarian about religion would create another Cromwellian situation that she could not afford to have to quell.  Where Henry fought toe to toe and took a totalitarian view, Elizabeth was able to take a much more nuanced aproach and fight only for what was neccessary and had no need to be viewed as someone totally in control.  After all she was a mere woman.  
Another thing that Elizabeth took from Henry was his capriciosness, and she was able to take it to sheer extremes and get away with it.  Henry believed in his sole authority as granted by God, and if it behoved England for him to change his mind, he simply did it.  He used great generosity of position to find the lesser noblemen and commoners to enter into positions and sought signs of disloyalty and inability to handle and maintane power.  If that were the case as it was in Cromwell’s position well you paid the price and someone else was given the authority.  What we must understand was that due to the War of the Roses, Henry was still rebuilding infrastructure that was decimated by the death of so many nobility.  He needed to change his mind often when someone was not bred well enough to handle the authority that he gave them.  He must have felt very much alone and his patience must have been very well tried in his lifetime.  Elizabeth had a similar situation in the sense that England still held her power by being some ally of  European countries, and that she was repairing the Protestant Church of England that Mary had dismantled.  She was also the last standing Protestant Nation and the wolves were definetely circling and salivating.  She used her Fathers ability in a very feminine way.  Where Henry said I am the King of England, I may change my mind if I wish,  she merely put it off on her sex, I am but a Woman. 
Elizabeth also understood as did Henry that the people, the commoners were her power and she was also a great propagandist as was her Father a patron of the arts.  She continued in Henry’s way of showing generosity and wealth in court, and by being a patron of such greats as Shakespeare. 
Elizabeth worshipped her father and carried on his mission to make England free of all entanglements.  She understood why it was neccessary for her father to have a male child, and her reaction was to never marry.  If you don’t marry, you will not make England a subject of your King’s foreign land.  If you marry someone within the realm then you can no longer use your marriage for alliances that England so desperately needed until Elizabeth used her father’s navy to destroy the Spanish Armada and thrust England into being a super power.
Henry was not a monster, he was a great King, and Elizabeth was proof of his greatness.  She studied his reign and she carried on the legacy that he created.  She avoided his pitfalls, and made a very pragmatic decision that she would rather be an effective Queen than feel the need to keep the Dynasty going, she knew she did not have her father’s strength to do what she wanted, but she got what she wanted by being a very, very effective monarch.  She left succession to cause problems before she passed, but she sent her envoy to Scotland to set up a very freindly assension of King James who assured that England remained away from Vatican influence, and United the Kingdom and started an Empire.
The fact that Anne Boleyn did not live with her daughter, and was beheaded when Elizabeth was around 3 years old, probably meant that whatever anger she had toward her father was minimal, especially since she found herself in the position of signing the death warrant of Mary Queen of Scots.  History declares that she reluctantly did it, but it was Elizabeth through and through to avoid political fall out for seemingly being conflicted as to the decision that she herself made on behalf of England and her Reign. 
We want to believe that these Monarchs lived and felt as us commoners do, but from birth they are different, from their position, feelings of Love and Loyalty are more liabilities than assets, and due to the tumultuous incessant grasping for power that was never ending around them, they learned very quickly that the exercising of these emotions can cost you your life.
From the movie Elizabeth the Golden Age “I have a secret, my dear. I pretend there’s a pane of glass between me and them. They can see me, but they cannot touch me. You should try it.”

August 17, 2011
3:52 pm
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All I can say is BRAVO!!!

March 6, 2012
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Anyanka said

MegC said:

I think it’s probably a blessing that poor Elizabeth didn’t wind up entirely screwed up!  We know how important having a strong positive male role model is in the lives of teenage girls, especially.  Clearly, she was surrounded by some strong, well-balanced people who raised her (because clearly Henry didn’t) and shaped the positive aspects of the woman she would ultimately become–despite Henry’s treatment of her.  There is no possible way she could have escaped that childhood emotionally unscathed (but, then again, does any teenager escape their adolescent years emotionally unscathed now that I think about it?).


Probably not.My parents divorced when I was 7 . Then I had Step-mother 1 for a few years , several GF’s of DF….then SM2…somehow…the GF’s lasted though both the 2nd and 3rd marrriages. In fact when DF was on his death-bed at least one of his femmes visited him every day…

 

I bonded with my maternal Grandfather and an uncle. Though I also had close relationships with my great-uncles and GP’s cousins when I was younger . I grew up listening to stories of WWI and WWII, And not the white-washed stuff we got in history lessons either. Wonder where my intereast in military history comes from??

Good point Ayanka, Like you my mum and dad divorced when I was 7, but I was and am still not close to my mum, I guess it’s from something she said just after Dad left, that soured our relationship, and she’s always made me feel like the black sheep anyway..I had a close and loviing relationship with my Dad I was a real Daddy’s girl. I became incredably close to the mother of an Ex boyfreind and still am, she’s my Mum. and I love her dearly. My Dad died when I was just 19, and I miss him every day.

I wonder if Elizabeth felt the same way towards her stepmothers.. She must have loved her mum dearly, although she couldn’t have had many memories of her, but I think Kat Ashley may have done a bit in keeping her mum alive in her memories. Elizabeth must have loved her father, but always felt that he was like a fireplace not to get to close to in case she got burnt. As for her stepmothers, she really didn’t get the chance to get to know them properly, she kept in touch with Anne of Cleves and stayed with her on occations, so perhaps she viewed her more as an aunt or an older sister perhaps. She did have a close relationship with Catherine Parr, but Catherine blamed her I think for Thomas’s behaviour towards her. I said in another post that I thought Thomas might have tried to rape Elizabeth at some point, and Kat Ashley stepped in, so in some respects, perhaps Catherine was trying to protect Elizabeth from her lecherous husband, by sending Elizabeth away. Or perhaps Catherine realised that her husband didn’t love her, and thought if Elizabeth wasn’t there he would once again love her as he once did.
When Catherine died, Thomas I believe proposed to Elizabeth almost immediately, and she turned him down. I think Kat Ashley had maybe given her a boot up the bum to kerb her behaviour, and if Thomas did try to rape I think he literely put the fear of God into her too, as she must have realised that she had a power over men and if she used it wisely she would be fine, I know what I’m trying to say, I just can’t think how to put it into words. Either way she learned a valuable lesson with Thomas..
As a child from divorced parents, as Ayanka and myself are we can perhaps see how Elizabeth might have felt towards her Stepmothers, as we have both been through those feelings with our own experiences. I had a stepmum and a stepdad, I hated my stepmother, but I always gave her the due respect she deserved, I got on ok with my stepdad, but he didn’t really want much to do with either me or my brother, so at times I felt a little annoyed with him that he was taking mum away from us, if that makes sence, strangely enough once I had my daughter he was brilliant with her he was always talking to her and showing her things reading to her etc, he really did get into the old grandad bit, when my son came along he was as proud as punch and again he used to take them off for walk etc, he loved it, sadly he passed away of prostate cancer, and at the end he wanted me to sit with him, and told me that he had always loved me but didn’t know how to tell me, mad buzzard, I miss him every day too.
I rather like to think that perhaps Henry when he was dying he last thought were perhaps of Anne B, Jane and Elizabeth.
That’s why I love these forums, so much. There are so many diverse topics of conversation from many different people and I love you all

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 6, 2012
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I think Henry became mentally unstable after that blow to his head, before then he could shoot fire for sure, but after the accident, he could make tea, toast and a four course banquet just by opening his mouth. Elizabeth learnt from a very early age, not to run into the flames and hope she didn’t get burnt, but just stand on the edge of the flame pit, and say the old yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir. I don’t think she ever asked Henry for anything knowing full well if she did she may well get roasted. She learned the business of self reliance, the reason being because she would never know if her maids and servents would be there the next day, Kat Ashley was really like a mother to her, but even Elizabeth knew that Kat was there to do a job, hope that makes sence. I think she also appointed her own tutors as well. Elizabeth had a mind that surpassed perhaps her father’s intelligence.
She did build an England to be proud of, after all she had to sweep up the mess and dispose of it from 3 previous reigns before she could even start to start to build it. Elizabeth was and still is one of the greatest monarchs, who ever lived, and our Anne was the key to it all.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

October 21, 2012
3:06 pm
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January 3, 2012
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Thinking about this one, one of Elizabeth’s greatest points in managing Henry (her dad) as she simply did what he did, and airbrushed her mother out of existence.. I not saying she forgot her because no one who knew Anne even just for 5 minutes could forget her. (Look at us we never knew Anne and yet nearly 500 years later we love Anne for what she did and who she was.) But unlike Mary who always made great show about her mother and in some ways taking her mother’s side in Henry’s and KOA’s fights I don’t think Henry ever truely forgave her fully for that, although he showed all the due respect she deserved, there was always in the back of Henry’s mind, she sided with her mother against me blah blah blah.. Whereas Elizabeth simply through sheer diplomancy and tact said my dad was right to kill my mum etc. I’m a lion’s cub my dad is a God, in short she said and did exactly what Henry wanted, and that in turn flattered Henry and perhaps won his love for her more than Mary had done. I hope that makes sence.
For Elizabeth, Henry was simply her mother and her father. But even so I don’t believe for one minute she forgot her mother, she just had the good sence to not mention her in anyway whatsoever.
I think Elizabeth viewed Henry as her first love, and used his mistakes in his stormy love life as a guide to make sure she never fell into the same trap he did. The Seymour affair was a real test of her ability to turn her back on the whole sex and marriage bit, in some ways perhaps she could see just how it felt for a wife to be betrayed by the husband. In much the same way as KOA must have felt when Henry was courting Anne whilst still married to KOA.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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