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A view on Katherine Howard
September 21, 2011
9:12 am
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Sharon
Binghamton, NY
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Neil Kemp said:

Good point Sharon. Although there are exceptions of course, in the main we all need the love and guidance of our family to help us cope with the world. True then, now, and at any point in the future.

Regarding those with degrees, I concur with you on this point also. Most of the ruperts I’ve come across wouldn’t have lasted two minutes in a pressure situation on their own. Books are one thing, but an understanding of how to act and interact with people in the “real” world is far more important. Before all of you with degrees jump on my case, I must emphasise that I speak from personal experience and would not make the mistake of putting everybody with a degree in the same catagory. It’s just a case of “speaking” as I find, no offence meant to anyone on here!

 

Neil, I agree. I was speaking from my experiences as well.  I certainly did not mean to offend anyone.

September 21, 2011
11:22 am
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Sharon
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E said:

I don’t think she was stupid because she wasn’t book learnt. I think she was stupid to have an affair on a man as vindictive and cruel as Henry.

I agree that she had her childhood robbed. I disagree with the statement that had her family supported her she may have turned out different. Anne had the support of her family after all.

It seems that AB Files fans show quite a lot of support for Kitty Howard and I wonder why this should be?

Its not that I don’t feel a great pity for her, of course, I feel the poor lovely little thing was isolated and very alone. It is terrible that she was picked up and though unsuitable as consort created as such. But surly, she was aware of Henry’s treatment of his previous queens- all she had to do was continue with Henry, not employ those two she chose to and not fool around with Culpepper.

Perhaps she should have mentioned to Henry her past, and indicated that she would enjoy to be his mistress, not his wife…. Then she could have been with, maybe even married Culpepper.

Mya-Elise, what on earth makes you think pedophiles were non existent in the 16th Century? If the oldest profession is prostitution, the oldest crime is pedophilia! Any way, after reading my post, what made you think I was serious? None of us here is overly fond of Henry. And in your opinion, when were pedophiles invented?Surprised

Hi E,

 I just don't think Katherine knew any better.  She had never been taught right from wrong.  She had seen the other young girls in her life freely give themselves to men.  She did not know any better.  In that respect Anne and her were from different planets.  They may have both ended up being killed by Henry, but Anne had values that were lacking in Katherine.  What I was trying to say was Katherine was not educated in books, true; but more importantly she was not educated in how a woman should behave. She was never taught to respect herself.

Katherine probably thought that all she needed to do was keep Henry interested in her physically and she would have the world at her feet. I agree it was wrong to bring those people into her service as she did, but we don't know the circumstances for that decision.  Maybe they threatened to tell someone about the lifestyle she lived at her Grandmother's unless she brought them in.  Maybe she wanted to fill positions with the young people she knew.

 Katherine was a young, sexually active girl.  She may have thought that it wouldn't hurt anyone if she met Culpeper in secret.  Maybe she did fall in love.  Or maybe it was plain and simple lust.   People in her employ knew about Culpeper. Yet, she trusted them to keep her secret. She didn't seem aware of the danger she was putting herself in. Her trust speaks to her lack of good judgement. I just can't call her behaviour stupid or idiotic.  She lacked the ability to make wise choices.

As I am writing this, I feel like I am writing about a young child, not a young woman. Katherine lacked the ability to think through the consequences of her actions.   

The more I learn about Henry's wives on the ABFiles, the more I tend to support each and every one of them.  Supporting Henry is my problem.  I'm working on it, but it seems to get tougher, not easier.  Wink

 

September 21, 2011
5:53 pm
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Mya Elise
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Well people certainly didn't consider pedophiles back then. I mean seriously a 60 year old and a 16 year old?! That's disgusting. People obviously didn't care about that kind of stuff back then and yeah there were pedophiles back then and everything but what i'm saying is that people didn't take it as seriously as it is now. Today people are completely disgusted and it's a crime to be a pedophile and back then in the 1500's it wasn't taken that seriously. Pedophiles have always been around but it's more recongized nowadays then in the 1500's.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

September 22, 2011
12:51 am
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Elliemarianna
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With regards to paedophilia – It all depends on the moral and cultural view of the country your in or the religious group you are part of. In my country for instance (UK), a 16 year old girl and a 60 year old man is not a crime, as she is past the age of consent – yet in America he is a paedophile. In Iraq the age of consent is 9 years old, I believe in India it may be 12? What we may find disgusting in one country is not so in another – as the moral idea's on the age of consent are different.

I know for our country, the age of consent was placed at 16 as that is the time when a girl is considered both physically and mentally prepared for sexual activity. It does, however, often happen a lot sooner.

In Tudor times, they were not paedophiles, because it wasn't considered so in their society. We are seeing it that way because of our moral view. I presume it made sense in their eyes, if life expectancy was far less than it is now, that people would marry younger in order to produce the maximum amount of children during their lifespan.

I am in no way condoning their actions, by the way.

"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.

September 29, 2011
8:20 pm
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E
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Hi Sharon, I agree with you- it must have been very difficult for Katheryn and I also see her as more of a child. I often refer to her as Kitty Howard and I just feel so much sadness for her fate. I still think she foolish, there's no denying that. But I wonder if the bigger fool was not Henry for taking her as his wife, knowing so little about her past and making no effort to find out.

What a dreadful crime, to take such a nieve young girl and put a crown on her head. Sigh.

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

September 29, 2011
8:23 pm
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E
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Good points about the pedophilia by the way, perception is nine tenths of the law? Smile

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

October 2, 2011
4:04 am
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BoleynBlue
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I dont think that Katherine was stupid at all and to believe she was I think is a little unfair, she was simply not educated to the standards of the other queens and also of women of high standing families, after all who would ever imagined that she would become queen one day, if her family had believed that she would then I'm pretty sure she would have been educated better.

October 2, 2011
2:25 pm
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Anyanka
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Exactly Boleyn Blue. Most women had next to no education. Niether did the average man. Henry was lucky to be married to 3 exceptionally well educated women in KoA, AB and KP.

 

JS and probably AoC were educated simply to be wives. Poor Kathryn was left to pick up her education piecemeal since her grandmother or her uncle didn't seem to overly concerned about one more daughter of the family.

It's always bunnies.

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