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Women Today vs Women of the 16th Century
August 24, 2010
3:00 pm
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Bella44
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Who do you find more inspiring?  Women today or women of the sixteenth century?  I ask this because it truly bugs me that we hold women such as Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, *insert name of your preferred reality TV loser here* up as genuine role models, inspiration for women and girls everywhere.  It makes me sad that women today are constantly told this is what we have to look like and this is how we have to behave to be seen as worthwhile.  Women four/five hundred years ago had it far tougher than we have today, we have so many more options and yet sometimes I look around me and all I see is a wasteland of so much lost potential.

Anne Boleyn, Lady Jane Grey, Mary Tudor, Elizabeth etc lived in a time we can scarcely comprehend yet managed to conduct themselves with grace, dignity and intelligence under some truly horrific circumstances.  They made an impact on the world around them that still resonates today.  In my book that makes them far better role models and heroines than the morons who go on Top Model.  

If the likes of Victoria Beckham had to deal what these women went through do you think they'd manage to survive?  Laugh

August 24, 2010
3:14 pm
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Boleynfan
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Interesting point. I agree–most of today's “role models” are really pretty pathetic next to Anne, Jane, Mary, Elizabeth, etc. None of them had to bravely face execution by a husband or relative, none of them had to face their mother's death and imprisonment by their own father, etc. Bella, you hit it spot on!!!

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 24, 2010
5:24 pm
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Bella44
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Yeah I was watching the E channel last night (I know, I know!) and all they could go on about was some surgically enhanced non-entity and some supposed sex tape, and I just thought good grief, is this what being female is all about now?!!!  At which point I turned the TV off and made everyone in the house watch 'Anne of the Thousand Days' instead, heh!

August 24, 2010
7:55 pm
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Boleynfan
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Go, Bella!! Make them watch Anne of the Thousand Days!!! Wow, no wonder we all admire the 16th century women. Anne was 'a woman before her time,' but not if these women are the women after her time, in my opinion. Anne, Elizabeth, etc.–they all deserve our respect more than many role models today.

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 25, 2010
5:27 am
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DuchessofBrittany
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Women of the past, with the exception of a few (my Mum and my undergrad Professor), are the ones I admire. I've been infactuated with Anne Boleyn and Elizabeth I since I was a child. These two women were ahead of their time, but were not ashamed to be intelligent, witty, and well-educated. They forged their own path, and did not confrom to ideals of beauty. Unlike people like Lohan, Spears, etc., who could not hold a flame to either Anne of Elizabeth, pale in comparison to the accomplishments. I only wish if I ever have a daughter someday is that she sees the same strenght and courage in Anne as I do, and she will follow Anne as a role model.

Bella44, your household will learn more from Anne of the Thousand Days than any show about plastic surgery, etc. I applaud you!

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

August 26, 2010
8:46 am
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Boleynfan
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I completely agree, DuchessofBrittany. This is off-topic, but just wondering, why is your username 'DuchessofBrittany'? I'm  trying to think of Brittany, but not much is coming to mind.

And I would watch Anne of the Thousand Days anytime as well!!

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 26, 2010
10:26 am
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DuchessofBrittany
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Boleynfan said:

I completely agree, DuchessofBrittany. This is off-topic, but just wondering, why is your username 'DuchessofBrittany'? I'm  trying to think of Brittany, but not much is coming to mind.

And I would watch Anne of the Thousand Days anytime as well!!


I too love Anne of the Thousand Days. Genevieve Bujold is a fantastic Anne.

I chose the name Duchess of Brittany because some of my ancestors (through my maternal grandmother) was the Duke and Duchess of Brittany. My closest royal relation, as far as my geneological research shows. I hope this answers your questions.

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

August 26, 2010
2:43 pm
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Sharon
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I guess it depends on who we pick as role models.  For me, my Mother ,who just recently passed away, was and will always be my role model.  She was a woman ahead of her time.  When women were supposed to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, my Mom had to work because my Dad was ill and she had two kids who had to have clothes on their backs and food in their stomachs.  After my Dad died, she made sure we had everything we needed.  She was the strongest, tough as nails, most loving woman I have ever known.

Other than my Mom, I have a few women that I hold in high regard. Elizabeth Blackwell was the first woman Doctor.  In the 1800's it was unheard of for a woman to become a doctor.  Her fight to be allowed into medical school makes her worthy of being a role model.  Helen Keller was blind, deaf and mute.  Her trials and her thirst for knowledge make her my favorite role model.  All the women who fought for the right to vote in the early 1900's.  They went to jail and were force fed in prison.  Some of them lost their families just so all women would be able to cast a vote in America.  All the women who stood up in the 60's and fought for their civil rights. To be able to work alongside of men as equals, and not run and get those men coffee.  They all deserve to be on the list of role models.  Rosa Parks.  She refused to go to the back of the bus. Bless her heart.  Nobody can ever tell a person now to go to the back of the bus to sit because of her and the stand she took for civil rights.  Many of you won't agree with me on this next choice, but here it goes anyway.  Hillary Rodham Clinton.  She was a child of the 60's as am I.  She sat at the table as a young lawyer when there was a possibility that Nixon would be impeached.  She went on to become one of the top 100 lawyers in the country.  She fought the odds and became a Senator. Now she is Secretary of State.  During our youth, it was unheard of for a woman to be a lawyer.  She did it and did it well.

I have never watched a reality show in my life.  I think they are plain stupid.  I take my heroes from real life.

August 26, 2010
6:27 pm
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Boleynfan
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I'm sorry about your mother, Sharon.

I see what you're saying: the people worthy to be role models are still here, they're just not as widely acknowledged as “role models” such as celebrities. I agree completely.

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 27, 2010
9:15 am
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Sharon
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Thank you Boleynfan.

Yes, our present day role models don't get acknowledged because this country has a 2 minute concentration span.  The celebrity is always in front of the TV.  The real role models never get the attention or the air time that a drug taking entertainer receives. 

I left out another important step that Hillary has taken.  She is the first woman to ever run for President of the United States.  She has opened another door that I thought never to see open in my time.

August 27, 2010
11:42 am
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Boleynfan
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Sharon and wreckmasterjay, you guys hit it right on the nail. There are still the “Anne Boleyns” and “Elizabeths” out there, they just aren't the catty girls on reality TV.

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 28, 2010
8:40 am
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Gina
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This may sound lame but I think of someone like Oprah. She was dirt poor, molested as a child and a minority. Look how much she has accomplished in her life. I think that she has some grit inside her that these amazing woman had as well. I think that so many women of our era do us a disservice. Women of Tudor times were more like property or things. Yet the women you list: Anne Boleyn, Lady Jane Grey, Mary Tudor, Elizabeth etc were more powerful than men of that time, before or since!

-XO Gina

August 28, 2010
1:23 pm
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Sharon
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Thank you Gina. How could I ever have forgotten Oprah. 

When you say women of our time do us a disservice, you mean women like Paris Hilton who spent last night in jail, right?… LOL  They have a chance to do such good in this world and they do drugs and get arrested.  Such a sad commentary.

August 28, 2010
10:18 pm
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Bella44
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Paris Hilton – what a waste of oxygen.  I turn on my computer this morning and she's the main story on the news site that is my homepage?!

Oprah – now there's an incredibly strong woman and positive role-model.  And whilst I don't really like her that much she's someone I have a lot of respect for.  The same with Hillary Clinton.

Down here in New Zealand a woman I've always admired is Kate Sheppard.  She won the vote for women in New Zealand in 1894 and spent time in the UK giving talks to the womens suffrage movement there.  And Helen Clark was our first elected female prime minister serving three terms (1999-2008).  And in my personal opinion one of the best prime ministers we've ever had  Laugh 

August 29, 2010
11:38 am
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AnneTheQueene
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I have to agree with Bella44.  Paris Hilton-have nothing against her but nothing for her either.

oprah and hilary clinton-while I am not huge fans I respect them for being such strong woman and speaking their opinion. espically hilary for not cowering back at the US presidency and saying 'oh everyone else is male so theres no point in me doing anything'. same with oprah for not saying i'm worth less I got molested as a child, instead she used that to pick herself up and create a billion dollar industry.

I personally admire princess diana because she was not afraid to go against royalty (again nothing against her majesty the queen, or her family if I ever met her I would probably faint instead of bow) but how diana was real and spoke to the people instead looking as they were below her and she didn't do this aggressively she seemed so sweet.  she touched a lot of peoples hearts and I think thats amazing. it was like you could just sit down and have a good conversation with her and she would listen and be interested in your thoughts and not so cold and distant.  and when she passed away all the flowers left outside the palace-it was like wow you touched that many peoples hearts you must really have been something special.  thats why I admire her.

ps. sharon-so sorry to hear about your mother.Cry

August 30, 2010
11:30 am
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Sharon
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AnneTheQueen, Thank you.

You ladies keep coming up with names I did not mean to leave out.  Princess Diana, who was such a beautiful person, was a woman I admired. She used her office to bring good into the world. She wasn't just a pretty face.  But she was gorgeous, and down to earth.  Her work on the removal of land mines around the world, opened our eyes to a desparate problem.  She did bring such joy to so many sick and hurt children.  And to so many of us who followed her.

I'm quite sure I would freeze in place if I ever met the Queen or any of the royals.  Then I would faint.

Although I actually did meet the Duke and Duchess of Windsor many years ago when I was 14 years old at a hospital in NYC.

August 30, 2010
1:35 pm
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Boleynfan
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I'm sorry about your mother too, Sharon 🙁

I agree with this all. Princess Diana, Oprah and Hilary Clinton (whether or not you like them, you have to respect them at least to some extent), etc are all like our modern Annes and Elizabeths, don't you think? (Although in my mind, no one will ever be able to live up to either of them, who are two of my role models!)

Lucky you to meet the Duke and Duchess of Windsor! What were they like? Off topic a bit, but I think I remember seeing a genealogy tree that showed the Windsor House to be descended from Mary Boleyn Carey, but perhaps I'm wrong. I pore through so many Tudor family trees it's hard to keep track of it all!

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 30, 2010
9:58 pm
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AnneTheQueene
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Yes I would agree with Boleynfan, that Anne and Elizabeth are my role models. But I believe in a more modern sense Princess Diana would be my role model. And speaking of Princess Diana, tomorrow the 31st will be the anniversary of her car crash-its been 13 years can you believe it? RIP.

But I have to say I am glad there were woman like Anne and Elizabeth back in a time when woman had little to no rights, I am glad they started to pave a pathway for feminism to grow over the years and for the woman to speak out more and more as most (but not all, unfortunately) do today.

August 31, 2010
10:26 am
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Sharon
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Thank you ladies for voicing your sympathy.

In 500 years women will hopefully look to our present day women, Oprah, Hillary & Diana etc. and feel towards them the way we feel towards Anne and Elizabeth.  I admire all of these women today, but I know there are some who do not.  These are the women of the 60's  women's movement.  I always used to say that I was not a feminist.  But now I own the title.  It doesn't mean we hate men.  It means we will work beside them.  There is no walking a step behind them.  It means we will be equal to them.  It means we are able and willing to stand up and fight for what we believe in.  Anne and Elizabeth would fit right in with the modern day woman.  Wouldn't they love to see us today? It would be a dream come true for them, i think.   Off my soapbox. 

Yes, I was in the hospital for spinal surgery when I was 14.  The Duchess was on another floor having surgery on her feet.  The Duke was going to a dinner one night and stopped to say hello to all the kids.  We were on stretchers at one end of the hall.  When he turned the corner, everyone just stopped talking and we were all stunned. (that's how I know I would freeze if I met the Queen..LOL)   He had on a black tuxedo, with the long coattails.  His shirt was white and he wore a white tie and white sash.  He had a red, white and blue ribbon across his chest.  He was one of the handsomest man I'd ever seen.  He had such a warm personality.   He stayed with us for about an hour asking us questions about our surgery and our families.  Two days later, three of us were in the lobby as the Duke and Duchess were leaving.  He saw the three of us, and brought the Duchess over to our stretchers and introduced her to us.  He remembered all of our names.  It was amazing.  Something you never forget. 

August 31, 2010
11:31 pm
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Bella44
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What a fantastic description of feminism, Sharon!  I read an interview with Avril Lavine once and she had no idea what feminism was/is.  I could've just strangled her!  Gahhhhh!

Sorry to hear of your mothers' passing too.  It's coming up to the third anniversary of my Mum's death and she's the one I credit with inspiring a love of history in all us kids, if it wasn't for her I would probably never have heard of the Tudors.  And that would be just too awful!!!!!

Meeting the Duke and Duchess of Windsor sounds amazing.  I saw the Queen once but that was at a Commonwealth Games ceremony and she was just a little speck too far in the distance!

Another woman I wanted to put in was Marilyn Monroe.  Maybe not the first person you think of when talking about strong women, but she had a hard life (especially her upbringing) yet always maintained an incredible sense of dignity and grace.  She was abused by men her whole life but rose above it to become a real presence in the world.  And like Anne Boleyn I don't think she was fully appreciated or understood in her own lifetime.  

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