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What Are We All Reading?
August 23, 2010
7:55 am
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TinaII2None
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Boleynfan said:

Tina – I see more and more Eleanor-Anne similarities: both had a lot of love in them, especially motherly love, they both had ambition, they both did things their own way, they were both striking to look at, but in an unconventional way…Ooh, you're right, wouldn't it be great if Henry lay next to Anne? Revenge! 🙂


Well, like I said, I know it would be impossible for that to happen, but I just love the idea of him being buried beside the woman whose demise he assisted in.

You know what? When I saw the excerpt of that scene in The Tudors when Henry goes to visit Anne of Cleves and Elizabeth at Hever, well, I couldn't help wishing that he got a ghostly visit or two…or three before he left. Nothing over the top mind you. Moving his chamber pot from its' usual spot would work. Or tripping him up as he walked down the hall. And then a soft laugh to creep him out. Nice little subtle touches you know Wink

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

August 23, 2010
9:12 am
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TinaII2None
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Oh just what we needed — a new thread! Smile

I've started one under Tudor Movies and TV shows called Favorite (and Least Favorite) Movie and/or TV Versions of Anne and Henry. I've not only listed my favorite Annes and Henrys/Henries, but my least favorite, my also rans, and some supporting Tudor characters too.

I'd love to see your favorites and dislikes too. (You all are such a great bunch anyway). Didn't list but one Elizabeth — figured I'd ask about her over on Elizabethe Files.

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

August 23, 2010
2:18 pm
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Boleynfan
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This seems sad now that I'm writing it since I read so many books, but I only own the first two on your list, Tina! I'm working on getting some of the others though.

Love the ghost idea 🙂 Wouldn't that be great? I can just picture the scene, in an eerie novel (I call dibs! Wink). Or in a movie, with creepy music playing. Maybe Anne's wild laugh instead of a soft one? Hmm…

Thanks for the new thread!

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 23, 2010
4:18 pm
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TinaII2None
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Boleynfan said:

This seems sad now that I'm writing it since I read so many books, but I only own the first two on your list, Tina! I'm working on getting some of the others though.

Love the ghost idea 🙂 Wouldn't that be great? I can just picture the scene, in an eerie novel (I call dibs! Wink). Or in a movie, with creepy music playing. Maybe Anne's wild laugh instead of a soft one? Hmm…

Thanks for the new thread!


And I missed another one — it was in another location! LOL Great Harry by Carolly Erickson. I'd always meant to read her Bloody Mary and never got around to it. I'd definitely say hit Alibris or Amazon Marketplace for some great deals on used books. It was funny, cause I found a handwritten note in my copy of Starkey's bio on Elizabeth — I must have bought it used, as the seller wrote Hope this brings you as much joy as I had in reading it.

Eerie novel — you've got it. I'll do the screenplay for the movie LOL Anne doing just enough to make him lose it. He has it coming. Wink

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

August 23, 2010
8:33 pm
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Bella44
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I've got: Innocent Traitor and The Lady Elizabeth by Alison Weir

             Virgin by RObin Maxwell

             Last Days of Henry Vlll by Robert Hutchinson

             Children of Henry Vlll by Alison Weir

             Elizabeth l by Anne Somerset

             Elizabeth by David Starkey

             Oxford Illustrated History of the British Monarchy

And an absolute truck load of others (12 biographies on Anne Boleyn alone!) so I'm not going to list them all here!  But out of those ones I really liked Alison Weir's 'Children of Henry Vlll' and 'Elizabeth l' by Anne Somerset.  I've got Carolly Erickson's 'Bloody Mary' but it's been a while since i read it, do remember she went into a bit of detail about Mary's love of fashion and jewellery though – which is always fun to read about!

August 24, 2010
7:11 am
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Boleynfan
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Okay, seeing as we're listing libraries here, here is mine:
I, Elizabeth – Rosalind Miles

The Captive Queen – Alison Weir

The Secret Diary of Anne Boleyn – Robin Maxwell

Mademoiselle Boleyn – Robin Maxwell

The Poyson Garden – Karen Harper

Innocent Traitor – Alison Weir

The Queen's Governess – Karen Harper

The Last Boleyn – Karen Harper

Brief Gaudy Hour – Margaret Campbell Barnes

A Lady Raised High – Laurien Gardner

The Queen's Mistake – Diane Haeger

All Jean Plaidy books

Those are most of the novels next to me on my bookshelf, and then I have about fifteen biographies and another ten scattered novels. I didn't realize I had so many books!!

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 24, 2010
11:19 am
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Sharon
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Boleynfan said:

Bella – Duchess of Aquitaine by Margaret Ball is good, in my opinion, if you want a novel. I actually really liked The Captive Queen by Alison Weir, and I'd definitely recommend it. I'm not sure about non-fiction, but I'm interested too–anyone know about Eleanor non-fic?


One of the most comprehensive non-fiction books I have read about Eleanore is, Eleanore of Aquitaine and the Four Kings, by Amy Kelly.  The information is mostly taken from contemporary sources.  Excellent book on the life and times of Eleanore.  If you would like to read more non-fiction about Eleanor and Henry, (mostly Henry) Henry II, by W.L. Warren.

August 24, 2010
3:11 pm
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Boleynfan
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Thanks, Sharon! I'm putting both books on my list.

I just wanted to say: I finished two books, The Last Boleyn by Karen Harper and The Queen's Mistake by Diane Haeger. The former is about Mary Boleyn, from her time in France to approximately her mid-thirties, and the latter is about Catherine Howard. I really enjoyed the first one, and liked the way Mary was portraye. I also liked the second one, though not quite as much. It's interesting because The Queen's Mistake toys with the idea that Catherine was only partially unfaithful to Henry: a.k.a. she was not a maiden when he married her, but after her marriage the most she did was kiss Thomas Culpeper. Personally I think this unlikely, but it made for a good story and a more likable character.

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 24, 2010
5:15 pm
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TinaII2None
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Bella44 said:

I've got: Innocent Traitor and The Lady Elizabeth by Alison Weir

             Virgin by RObin Maxwell

             Last Days of Henry Vlll by Robert Hutchinson

             Children of Henry Vlll by Alison Weir

             Elizabeth l by Anne Somerset

             Elizabeth by David Starkey

             Oxford Illustrated History of the British Monarchy

And an absolute truck load of others (12 biographies on Anne Boleyn alone!) so I'm not going to list them all here!  But out of those ones I really liked Alison Weir's 'Children of Henry Vlll' and 'Elizabeth l' by Anne Somerset.  I've got Carolly Erickson's 'Bloody Mary' but it's been a while since i read it, do remember she went into a bit of detail about Mary's love of fashion and jewellery though – which is always fun to read about!


Bella — reading your list was like seeing a mirror image! LOL

Was over on Amazon reading some of the reviews of 'Bloody Mary'. It got mostly positive reviews, but I noticed a few felt Ms. Erickson made excuses for Mary. I don't know if that's accurate or not. I had sympathy for her, but still recognize her flaws, and it was just a tragic lfe considering that it started so lovingly. Was wondering what you thought.

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

August 24, 2010
5:36 pm
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Bella44
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From what I remember, it was a pretty sympathetic portrait of Mary, and whilst not shying away from the religious persecutions, didn't go into as much detail about that aspect as I would have liked.  It was the first book I read solely about Mary and did help me to see her in a slightly different light than I had previously.  Last year I read Linda Porters biography, which I would rate higher.  At the moment I'm half-way through Anna Whitelocks version, but even though I'm not up to the main events of Mary's reign I think Linda Porter still has the edge, just for greater attention to detail. 

August 24, 2010
7:59 pm
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Boleynfan
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I haven't read Bloody Mary, but I don't really think it's fair to be so sympathetic toward Mary. Yes, I feel sympathy for her: she had such a hard life. Still, her actions eventually showed that no matter how kind she might have started off, she ended up cruel. She deserves pity, definitely, but her reign was remembered as a reign of terror. She was called “Bloody Mary” for a reason, after all!

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

August 24, 2010
10:11 pm
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Gentillylace
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I just finished reading Robert Harris' novel The Ghost (the basis for the Roman Polanski movie The Ghost Writer) — a good, quick read, very obviously a roman a clef disguised as a thriller. Now I am reading Queen of Scots by John Guy, a quite readable and enlightening biography although the writing style is a little dry. I'm about a quarter of the way through, with Mary just arriving back in Scotland after her years in France. Have any of you read either of these books?

Yours as long as lyffe endures, Katheryn

August 25, 2010
5:19 am
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DuchessofBrittany
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Gentillylace said:I just finished reading Robert Harris' novel The Ghost (the basis for the Roman Polanski movie The Ghost Writer) — a good, quick read, very obviously a roman a clef disguised as a thriller. Now I am reading Queen of Scots by John Guy, a quite readable and enlightening biography although the writing style is a little dry. I'm about a quarter of the way through, with Mary just arriving back in Scotland after her years in France. Have any of you read either of these books?


I've read both of these. I enjoyed The Ghost. I like the unexpected ending. Queen of Scots by John Guy is my favourite biography of Mary Stuart. The writing is a bit dry, but I like Guy's analysis of Mary's life, and, in my opinion anyway, he does not make her into the tragic figure of historical fiction. Mary became more human to me. I hope you enjoy the bio.

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

August 26, 2010
8:48 am
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Boleynfan
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I started Brief Gaudy Hour: A Novel of Anne Boleyn yesterday and am about 1/3 of the way through it. I posted a new topic about it in Movies and Books because there are so many innacuracies (sp?)!! I like the book otherwise, but has anyone else read it and felt the same way?

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

September 2, 2010
11:44 am
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TinaII2None
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I've finished 'Lady in the Tower' (really enjoyed it) and I started 'Captive Queen' last night during my commute (and while I've visualized Henry Plantagenet as a YOUNG Peter O'Toole — like he was in Laurence of Arabia, believe me, I am NOT seeing Katharine Hepburn right now LOL). Figured it was time to take in a bit of fiction for a change of pace.

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

September 2, 2010
12:01 pm
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Sharon
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I thought Hepburn was perfect.  Beautiful and fiesty just the way I picture Eleanore.  I'm trying to remember Captive Queen.  Doesn't Eleanore come off as sweet and loving?  All peaches and cream?  Wonderful, cherishing Mom?   IMO, Hepburn had the real Eleanore down perfect. Strong as steel.  She had to be to survive in that family.

I watched Becket over the weekend.  Peter O”Toole played Henry in that, too. Richard Burton was Becket. 1964 film.  Lion In Winter, 1968. film. Whoever those women were in Becket who played Eleanore and Maud,…Oh wow … they were awful.  Really awful.

September 2, 2010
12:17 pm
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TinaII2None
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Sharon said:

I thought Hepburn was perfect.  Beautiful and fiesty just the way I picture Eleanore.  I'm trying to remember Captive Queen.  Doesn't Eleanore come off as sweet and loving?  All peaches and cream?  Wonderful, cherishing Mom?   IMO, Hepburn had the real Eleanore down perfect. Strong as steel.  She had to be to survive in that family.

I watched Becket over the weekend.  Peter O”Toole played Henry in that, too. Richard Burton was Becket. 1964 film.  Lion In Winter, 1968. film. Whoever those women were in Becket who played Eleanore and Maud,…Oh wow … they were awful.  Really awful.


Hepburn is THE Eleanor!!

I just saw someone (oh good grief who was it? LOL) play her in this year's Robin Hood with Russell Crowe (and Cate Blanchett as Marian, who has an Elizabeth/Lord of the Rings Galadriel sort of moment that drove a friend of mine up the wall LOL). Anyway, I can't even remember who played Eleanor in Robin Hood. I know she was in it, and unfortunately I kept comparing her and their Richard and their John to everybody in the Lion in Winter! LOL (The guy who played Richard was no Anthony Hopkins, the guy who played John was no Nigel Terry, and Lord knows the guy who played Philip was no Timothy Dalton *ROWR*)

Oh I loved Becket. I saw it a couple of years ago — so nice to see O'Toole as Henry again Laugh and I can be a sucker for Burton LOL

You know, probably on my 6th or 7th or 8th viewing of The Lion In Winter, I did wonder something and I'll just toss it out to all of you kind of off-track. Henry II reminded me of Henry VIII in that they both had their troubles with Rome…only Henry Tudor did something about it and never looked back. A few times after seeing TLIW and later Becket, I wondered myself — did Henry Plantagenet ever consider breaking with Rome and making a go of it as head of the Church of England? Or would that have been incredibly revolutionary for the time?

Oh Sharon — as for Captive Queen so far, here's the gist. Eleanor's tired of being married to Louis. She sees Henry Plantagenet and about 3 or 4 pages later, they're making love and plotting. Smile (Reminded me of Hepburn in TLIW saying that when she saw Henry they broke the commandments on the spot! LOL)

Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)

September 3, 2010
11:50 am
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Sharon
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No one seems to know when Henry and Eleanore met.  They believe it was at peace talks in 1151.  He married her in 1152, eight weeks after the French clergy had agreed with Louis' wishes to be parted from his wife.  She had snuck out of France and avoided Blois who was looking to stop her. She fled to Henry and they were married.  I will always think of them as breaking the commandments as soon as they saw each other.  I love this couple.  Even when they fought, they were magnificent.

Yes, Henry II had problems with the Church.  I don't think he thought about breaking with them.  He was always trying to placate them.  For instance, after he took control of Ireland (sort of) the Irish bishops welcomed his intervention.  They had been struggling with little success against local custom to establish the kind of ecclesiastical gov't which was normal in England. He summoned a council of bishops to reform Irish church law. They wrote to the pope expressing their hopes that at last the Irish church would conform to Roman law.  Cudos went to Henry.

September 6, 2010
9:16 am
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Boleynfan
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wreckmasterjay:

I believe the new book you are talking about is Fatal Attractions by G.W. Bernard. I believe Claire did a review of that but I'm not sure. Haven't read it yet but I also want it for my collection, even if I end up throwing it at a wall when Bernard says Anne was guilty 🙂

I think you're talking about Anne Boleyn and Me: The Diary of Elinor Valjean, London 1525-1536. I read in a while ago and thought it was okay not great. It's fairly juvenile (I think a book for older children/young adults) and “written” by a girl who prefers Katherine of Aragon to Anne. I thought it worth a read but not fantastic.

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

September 7, 2010
4:33 pm
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Boleynfan
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Haha, your welcome! 🙂 Are you still going to read it? I would, but only if you have the time because it's not the greatest book ever but still worth reading if you do.

"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"

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