Well, with all the talk of The White Queen, I found this on Amazon.com — in a ***** star review of the book.  This is an excerpt:

Another part of this story that will keep many readers entertained is the magical and sorcery elements. Elizabeth is said to be the descendant of a mythical water creature called Melusina. Ms. Gregory incorporated the myth of Melusina into the novel and actually used it as a recurring theme/symbol throughout the story. In addition, Elizabeth's mother practiced some examples witchcraft. Some people actually claimed that Elizabeth's mother put a spell on Edward to make him fall in love with her daughter. The character of Elizabeth also had premonitions about certain things and places in her life. She always had a bad feeling that something awful would occur in the Black Tower.

So Lady K, I guess that kind of answers what we wondered as far as the witchcraft aspect.  I did notice that many of the less flattering reviews said that the plot device started out interesting but then got tiresome as it is mentioned ad-nauseum. LOL

Oh! Caught this in one review. Has nothing to do with witchcraft but does have to do with very sloppy research!!

As to her being considered such a great historian, one thing really jumped out at me that makes me question how thorough she is with some topics. At one point Elizabeth mentions they're going to Nonsuch Palace. Nonsuch was started by her grandson, Henry VIII. Anyone can go to the internet, type in “Nonsuch Palace” and get this information. Some might consider that a bit nit picky on my part but in my opinion, if you're going to call yourself a great historian, at least have your characters going to places that existed at the time.

TinaII2None said:

Lady K — thanks for telling me. I just wondered. I was half-imagining Gregory having Elizabeth stealing hair so as to make waxen dolls of her enemies! (Then again — having not read the book, there still might be such a scene! LOL)

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Hey TinaII2None,

Um well, i forgot about it until you mentioned it but from memory in the book, Elizabeth Wydville did in fact take material from her brother in law George,Duke of Clarence and did some magical thing to it to inact revenge. Her mother and her also brewed a storm up too ~ bwahahahahahahah 

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Hello Impish_Impulse

I have heard that story about Margaret Beaufort, or something similar but ive no idea if its true. I would love to read up more on her.

A book that i can recommend (well ive partially read it and comes highly recommend) on the Plantagenets is The Sunne In Splendour, though it too is a pro Richard III. It apparantely is quite factual even though its fiction. I plan to get around to this one in a few months time for a buddy read.  

Great chating to you

Continuing on the subject of Ms. Gregory — yesterday morning, after reading Claire's wonderful articles on Mary Boleyn — I found that The Red Queen actually has a large amount of excerpts (as in several chapters) on Amazon's listing. Not sure how the UK site is set up, but if you go to the US version and click on the link that takes you inside the book, you can get a very good idea of what you'll have in store. Suffice it to say, half of me was chuckling at some pretty poor prose, and the first person take — well, Charlotte Bronte and Daphne DuMaurier have nothing to worry about!! This is what I got from reading approximately 50+ pages and this does contain some spoilers:

Margaret is about 9 when the novel opens, but she prays a lot, enough to put even Katherine of Aragon to shame. She is quite proud of her “saints knees” as she calls them, so proud in fact that the author makes mention of it about 3 or 4 times in one friggin' paragraph. (Okay I get it!!)

In fact, Margaret Beaufort — a child wise beyond her years or so Margaret tells us – prays so incessantly that she's getting on the nerves of her Lady Mother and her governess. I doubt many saints or prophets prayed as she does. When she is not praying, she imagines herself to be an English Jeanne D'Arc, which is a puzzling aspect considering that I always thought the English believed Joan to be a witch and burned her at the stake as we all know. Yeah, a lot of it was poltical of course, but Margaret seems to think herself a reincarnation of Joan — if she believed in such a thing. She's obsessed with Joan of Arc; knows everything about her; has spoken with those that served in Calais or other English territories and saw Joan either at the head of her armies or being executed. Margaret has such empathy for Joan that she imagines herself being at Joan's side during her passion.

By the end of chapter 1, I just want to shake the crap out of Margaret and tell her to snap out of it!! BUT WAIT! There's more! (Well, of course there is or you wouldn't have a 400 page novel). Of course Margaret still prays and prays and prays AND PRAYS, and she ends up at court with her Lady Mother in order to invalidate one “marriage”. She hopes to be allowed to go to a convent afterwards, but that's not what Mummy Dearest has in mind, and in short order, Margaret's been made a ward to the Tudor brothers; somewhere in there (I think I missed a paragraph or two) she and Edmund get married; he pretty much rapes her on a nightly basis, and then at dinnertime, he and brother Jasper talk strategy and plot their futures while Margaret just wants to get somewhere to pray (of course). She gets pregnant, Edmund gets captured, Edmund dies, Jasper swears fealty to Margaret’s child (if it’s a son), Margaret’s Mummy Dearest tells the midwives to let her daughter die if it comes down to her or the future Lancaster heir, Margaret prays some more and wonders when her Joan of Arc visions will return…and I decided I couldn’t take much more.

I’m glad Amazon.com had such an enormous amount of excerpts available because it helped me to make up my mind – I don’t think I could suffer 400 pages of just more of the same. But that’s just me and I don’t have a very high opinion of Ms. Gregory; still, I wanted to be able to make up my own mind when I saw that it wasn’t just a few pages of excerpts but dozens, enough to give me a good feel. I think I’ll definitely pass!

Bella44 said:

Ha ha ha, I'm still giggling over your review Tina!  Too funny!

That's the thing with Ms. Gregory – I swear her writing gets worse with each book and it seems for the last few she can't help but descend into caricature.  Poor Margaret Beaufort, now I'm not even slightly curious in checking out 'The Red Queen'!

Funny you should mention Daphne DuMaurier – I'm reading 'Rebecca' right now.  Yeah, I've read it a couple of times before, but it is one of my favourites….  

Hi Bella (and that's my youngest sister's name) — I read 'Rebecca' years ago, then saw Hitchcock's movie not long afterwards. Just loved it and it may be one of my few favorite first person novels (along with 'Jane Eyre').

That's sad to hear — that PG's writing is getting “worse with each book.” I read 'The Virgin's Lover' and while I didn't care for the premise, the writing at the time didn't seem too bad. In fact, I was almost tempted to buy 'The Other Boleyn Girl', but in the end decided not to.

I guess no matter what you think of Margaret Beaufort, she deserved better than this.

And thanks for the compliment about my review. Like I said before, that was my good deed for the day!

TinaII2None said:

And thanks for the compliment about my review. Like I said before, that was my good deed for the day!

Downright 'saintly' of you – no calloused knees needed!

Just to follow up, I said that I was about to start Mistress Shakespeare, by Karen Harper. It is about Anne Whateley. One of the mysteries revolving around Shakespeare is that one day there is a marriage license for him and Anne Whateley, and the next one for him and Anne Hathaway (not the actress, but same name!). In this novel, the story is that Anne Whateley and Shakespeare are in love, but when Hathaway finds out she is with child, Shakespeare is forced to marry her. He doesn't love her, and he and Anne Whateley live in London. Anne Whateley considers herself his true wife, and she becomes very involved with the theater, etc. There is a run-in with Robert Cecil.

I loved the book! It was great. I don't think there's any substantial proof about Anne Whateley-Anne Hathaway-Shakespeare, though. But still, a good story.

I just finished reading 1536: The Year That Changed Henry VIII  by Suzannah Lipscomb. It was an interesting read where Dr. Lipscomb argues 1536 is the year where Henry VIII changed from the Virtuous Prince (a la Dr. Starkey) to a feared tyrant that popular culture likes to represent today. Lipscomb argues that the events leading up to and around 1536, such as the accusations against Anne, her execution, the Pilgrimage of Grace, etc. brought out the worst in Henry's personality.

Suzannah Lipscomb is a research curator at Hampton Court Palace, so she has a certain understanding of the subject manner. An interesting read for anyone who wants a new perspective on how Henry became the tyrant we all hate, and what role Anne Boleyn and the others played in Henry's life.

Lipscomb presents a cogent argument, especially when she reflects in later chapter about the number of people killed under Henry VIII prior to 1536, and how that number surges post-1536.

In my opinion, Anne Boleyn's execution was ground zero for a tyrannical Henry VIII to emerge.

DuchessofBrittany said:

I just finished reading 1536: The Year That Changed Henry VIII  by Suzannah Lipscomb. It was an interesting read where Dr. Lipscomb argues 1536 is the year where Henry VIII changed from the Virtuous Prince (a la Dr. Starkey) to a feared tyrant that popular culture likes to represent today. Lipscomb argues that the events leading up to and around 1536, such as the accusations against Anne, her execution, the Pilgrimage of Grace, etc. brought out the worst in Henry's personality.

I'm going to have to add that one to my reading list! Thanks Duchess!