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10:28 am
February 8, 2011
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MegC said:
No, The Other Tudors is written by another Philippa–Philippa Jones. I have it sitting on my dresser right now.
Blech, I don't think I'd ever buy a non-fiction book by Phiippa Gregory. That's just too monstrous to think of.
Oh okay, my mistake then I don't actually own it. A friend of mine was talking about it when we were discussing Gregory.
11:02 am
November 18, 2010
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Some one on the main page discussion on Claire's new Anne of Cleves article wroet about The Boleyn Inheritance about Anne being spanked and her brother watching. This leads me to think she should skip trying to be a historical author and just write soft p*rn instead.
It's always bunnies.
11:21 am
February 24, 2010
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I looked up Phillipa Gregory, non-fiction. Much to my consternation she is releasing a book this year in September which will be non-fiction. The name of it will be, The Women of the Cousin's War: The Duchess, The Queen and The King's Mother. She is co-writing with two historical scholars David Baldwin and Michael Jones. Baldwin has written several books on the War of the Roses and Jones wrote, The King's Mother, a book about Margaret Beaufort.
2:54 pm
June 7, 2010
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I gave Philippa Gregory the benefit of the doubt. TOBG was okay. I bought and read it because of its Tudor theme, but cannot support the disparaging portrayl of Anne.
I liked The Constant Princess. I did not know much about KOA was a young women, and Gregory did bring to life KOA's life in Spain. I thought her other books would meet this standard.
Alas, no. The books about Elizabeth, her role in Amy Dudley's death, and the sex scenes with Robert were awful. I scanned much of the books, so it felt more like homework than pleasure reading.
Now, Gregory's series on the Cousin's war is not bad. She needs to get a better editor and someone to flush out Gregory's wordiness and repetition. I prefer The Red Queen to The White Queen.
The difficulty with any historical fiction novel is that some people will take them as TRUE. Sad, but true.
"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn
7:18 pm
February 8, 2011
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Anyanka said:
Some one on the main page discussion on Claire's new Anne of Cleves article wroet about The Boleyn Inheritance about Anne being spanked and her brother watching. This leads me to think she should skip trying to be a historical author and just write soft p*rn instead.
Yea she did! He made their mother spank her. She made the relationship between Anne and her brother really scary sounding. Like the entire time she lived there I thought Gregory was going to have him bust down Anne's door and rape her.
5:55 am
June 7, 2010
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Chrystinamarie123 said:
Anyanka said:
Some one on the main page discussion on Claire's new Anne of Cleves article wroet about The Boleyn Inheritance about Anne being spanked and her brother watching. This leads me to think she should skip trying to be a historical author and just write soft p*rn instead.
Yea she did! He made their mother spank her. She made the relationship between Anne and her brother really scary sounding. Like the entire time she lived there I thought Gregory was going to have him bust down Anne's door and rape her.
I also read The Boleyn Inheritance. It was okay, but this scene is particulalry disturbing. I would never put anything past Gregory. If it can sell books and create attention for her, she will write it. Heck, she had Anne and George engage in incest (even though in the movie the situation plays out differently).
"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn
11:11 am
October 31, 2010
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At least the director of the Hollywood version of TOBG had enough decency to change that bit of the story.
Gross! Just gross….
"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"
3:03 pm
December 5, 2010
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DuchessofBrittany said:
I gave Philippa Gregory the benefit of the doubt. TOBG was okay. I bought and read it because of its Tudor theme, but cannot support the disparaging portrayl of Anne.
I liked The Constant Princess. I did not know much about KOA was a young women, and Gregory did bring to life KOA's life in Spain. I thought her other books would meet this standard.
Alas, no. The books about Elizabeth, her role in Amy Dudley's death, and the sex scenes with Robert were awful. I scanned much of the books, so it felt more like homework than pleasure reading.
Now, Gregory's series on the Cousin's war is not bad. She needs to get a better editor and someone to flush out Gregory's wordiness and repetition. I prefer The Red Queen to The White Queen.
The difficulty with any historical fiction novel is that some people will take them as TRUE. Sad, but true.
I read 'The White Queen' and 'The Constant Princess' and quite liked them too. Then I read TOBG and it all went wrong…
I wish to confess to you and tell you my secret, which is that I am no angel. -Queen Elizabeth I
6:27 pm
February 8, 2011
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MegC said:
At least the director of the Hollywood version of TOBG had enough decency to change that bit of the story.
Gross! Just gross….
Yea but I mean, they traded out incest for rape. Both are equally disturbing.
I think I read somewhere that Gregory admitted to hating Anne, does anyone know anything about that?
11:43 pm
September 13, 2009
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It wouldn't suprise me if she does hate Anne. If she likes Anne then she sure has a funny way of showing it.
I haven't read any of her books, but I have seen TOBG movie. If the book is anything like the movie then I'd rather not read it. It left me with a very bad impression of Anne. That said, I thought Natalie Portman did a good job with what she had to work with.
When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
11:56 am
February 8, 2011
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ProudtobeCatholic said:
It wouldn't suprise me if she does hate Anne. If she likes Anne then she sure has a funny way of showing it.
I haven't read any of her books, but I have seen TOBG movie. If the book is anything like the movie then I'd rather not read it. It left me with a very bad impression of Anne. That said, I thought Natalie Portman did a good job with what she had to work with.
In all honesty, the book and the movie are equally bad but for different reasons. It's kind of like they each trade out one really horrible inaccuracies for another. The movie has rape and the book has incest, but atleast with the movie you can see some pretty costumes.
Also, idk Natalie Portman didn't do much for me. I love her in general but I just didn't think she was Anne, she didn't have the nessecary spark an actress needs to play Anne.
wreckmasterjay: I think it might've been the same interview where she claimed Mary was her personal idol but I'm not sure.
4:23 am
April 9, 2011
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I absoultely loved TOBG. It was a fascinating read and I really felt like I was living and breathing Henry's Tudor Court. I found it fascinating learning about the personality of this people of yesteryear. I will admit that as the story progressed I was really hating the character of Anne to the point that I changed my Facebook status to not being able to wait for Anne to be beheaded. But as the story which the dramatic point of the accusations leveled against Anne, I started to feel sorry for her with all the lies going on around her and the lack of communication for her and the isolation she was experiencing. So in the end I had gone from looking forward to her execution to dreading reading about it.
I also found the characterisation of George to be very sympathetic. He sounded like an awesome brother for the Boleyn sisters. And his homosexuality, I felt was dealt with well. It's not like he jumped into bed straight away with Weston. There are a number of dialogues where he agrees with his sisters that it is morally wrong and he needs to resist the temptation.
I also enjoyed the character of Mary, although I admit I was bored with her story when she went and shacked up with Stafford in secret. I just wanted to get her back to court so I knew what was going oin there.
And I hate Uncle Howard. Is that alright, I am meant to hate him right?
I know the incest is strongly implied but really it is up to the reader to decide if that's how they'll interpret the wording of that scenario. It could have been that George organised for a male prostitute to sleep with Anne or something. But I do agree it is more likely she was pushing for the incest angle to be majorly assumed, especially with the deformed baby.
The most offensive thing I found in the book was the liberable use of the c word. To the point that I researched to see if it wasn't a taboo word back then and discovered that it wasn't. And I did that a lot with things that happened in the book, researched online to seperate fact from fiction. And that's how I discovered this awesome site.
I never entered my reading of TOBG as being a factual novel, I went in reading a fictional book. In fact, I didn't find anything in the book that implied I was meant to read it as a book of facts. Just like how I read The Da Vinci Code as a novel and still scratch my head over the way that was treated as a factual book.
I've been unable to find any more of The Tudor Books by Philippa Gregory but I have found the 2 books on The Cousins War. Which I help will allow me to start undestanding that civil war andlead me in the direction of understanding it more. Although after reading that chewy quote I am a little bit worried about how I will be able to read it without laughing out loud. I thought it was a joke until told otherwise.
5:47 am
April 11, 2011
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You are a brave man Bill, saying you loved a book by PG! In fairness though I must admit, if you treat her books for what they are and have knowledge of their inaccuracies, then they can be entertaining and no harm done. Inside the cover of my TOBG (which was given away free with a copy of “The Times” newspaper some years back – not sure what that says about the book) PG is said to have been “widely praised for her historical novels”, by whom I wonder? Does anyone know about a PG book being “widely praised”?, I've yet to find the people responsible, although they could well be in hiding.
6:08 am
April 9, 2011
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I guess if the book was praised as a wonderful work of fiction, then the quote still stands. Especially since technically to be widely praise means 1 reviewer in Australia and 1 in the USA and 1 in the UK and one in Uzbekistan said it was great that the book was widely praised.
if you treat her books for what they are and have knowledge of their inaccuracies, then they can be entertaining
And that's all I wanted from the book, to be entertained and divert me from the real world for 20 minutes a day. Which it did quite successfully. If I wanted to be informed I would have purchased a book from the reference/history section not the ficition section ofthe book store.
7:09 am
October 31, 2010
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I appreciate that no one expects historical fiction to be 100% accurate, but if you want to create your own world then you need to write fantasy. I can even appreciate an author taking some historical liberties. But, if you read the book club notes in the back of the book (which, believe it or not, I did read), PG readily admits that the basis of TOBG was Retha Warnicke's research which has been pretty widely discredited. PG even claims in the interview in the back of my copy that when she decides to write a book she reads EVERYTHING about it she can get her hands on. Really? You chose the topic of Henry VIII–a man who married his brother's widow, divorced her, broke with the Catholic Church, married another woman, murdered her, and then proceeded to have a succession of 4 more wives–one of which died having his child, one he divorced, one he murdered (who happened to be related to the other queen he had murdered), and one who survived him–and that wasn't juicy enough for you? You HAD to take the homosexual/incest angle? Part of what makes historical fiction believable are the parts of the story that are based on historical fact. I question her integrity as an author, and, yes, I do believe that anyone who is going to call themselves a writer of historical fiction should be held to a higher standard. The more I read, though, the more I felt like she used the pieces of history that she felt would benefit her and discarded the rest.
I guess I just feel like when I read historical fiction that I expect that author to have done his/her research thoroughly and to make their story seem plausible, but to base your whole story on a largely discredited premise is just not a good starting point.
Having said that, though, I will agree that, technically, PG is a good writer. I mean, clearly she's got a huge following, so she's done something right. Not every book is going to be a homerun, but I was able to elicit some very strong emotions regarding her characters (though by the time Mary had baby #2 I was pretty much over her). I felt like the beginning of the novel dragged and I really wanted it to move along and get to the part where Henry started wooing Anne, but I appreciated the development of Mary's character from a fairly spoiled little brat to a mature woman. I was sad that she chose to portray Anne with no softness to her–just as a hard, unyielding almost tyranical, bitch, drunk on power with almost no redeeming qualities. And I found it interesting that she shaded Henry as less of a tyrant than I think history paints him as. I didn't care for the end. There was a real opportunity there to really make an impact, but I found her use of Catherine as one of Anne's ladies in the tower unrealistic. It would have been more dramatic if she'd had Mary present at Anne's execution because I believe that she probably was.
"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"
9:20 am
March 26, 2011
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I think that PG needs to make a television appearance or do an interview where she tells everyone that her books are completely fictional and that the only thing historical about them are the names of the characters and the some of the locations mentioned ( and perhaps some of it is VERY loosely based on historical events). I think then she would get more praise for what she does.. writes novels.
The problem is, in many interviews and also in the authors notes at the back of the books, PG appears to attempt to make some of her most far fetched story-lines appear entirely plausible, and even suggests that there is a good chance that they could have happened. However, PG writes some excellent entertainment, perfect as Bill1978 says, to divert you for half an hour or so. I have many PG books and they are very enjoyable as a bit of light reading. Though I must confess to trying to re-read TOBG and found myself very annoyed by the portrayal of Anne- Meg C I agree that there are virtually no redeeming qualities in PG's Anne, I think she cries-once, it is the only time the character shows any emotion other than anger! I once read a review (I can't remember where) that described Gregory's work as Historical chick-Lit, now I don't agree that these books are entirely aimed at women at all, but I think it's a good way to describe the novels in that it shows they shouldn't be taken too seriously.
If anyone has ever read the Wideacre trilogy by PG, then perhaps they will agree with me, it shows the author's ability to write a novel in a specific time period that is descriptive and vivid, and also has it's fair share of controversy and drama. These novels however do not have characters based on real Historic figures and so it is far more easy to read them as a work of fiction without getting irritated by innacuracies.
10:30 am
April 11, 2011
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MegC said:
I appreciate that no one expects historical fiction to be 100% accurate, but if you want to create your own world then you need to write fantasy. I can even appreciate an author taking some historical liberties. But, if you read the book club notes in the back of the book (which, believe it or not, I did read), PG readily admits that the basis of TOBG was Retha Warnicke's research which has been pretty widely discredited. PG even claims in the interview in the back of my copy that when she decides to write a book she reads EVERYTHING about it she can get her hands on. Really? You chose the topic of Henry VIII–a man who married his brother's widow, divorced her, broke with the Catholic Church, married another woman, murdered her, and then proceeded to have a succession of 4 more wives–one of which died having his child, one he divorced, one he murdered (who happened to be related to the other queen he had murdered), and one who survived him–and that wasn't juicy enough for you? You HAD to take the homosexual/incest angle? Part of what makes historical fiction believable are the parts of the story that are based on historical fact. I question her integrity as an author, and, yes, I do believe that anyone who is going to call themselves a writer of historical fiction should be held to a higher standard. The more I read, though, the more I felt like she used the pieces of history that she felt would benefit her and discarded the rest.
I guess I just feel like when I read historical fiction that I expect that author to have done his/her research thoroughly and to make their story seem plausible, but to base your whole story on a largely discredited premise is just not a good starting point.
Having said that, though, I will agree that, technically, PG is a good writer. I mean, clearly she's got a huge following, so she's done something right. Not every book is going to be a homerun, but I was able to elicit some very strong emotions regarding her characters (though by the time Mary had baby #2 I was pretty much over her). I felt like the beginning of the novel dragged and I really wanted it to move along and get to the part where Henry started wooing Anne, but I appreciated the development of Mary's character from a fairly spoiled little brat to a mature woman. I was sad that she chose to portray Anne with no softness to her–just as a hard, unyielding almost tyranical, bitch, drunk on power with almost no redeeming qualities. And I found it interesting that she shaded Henry as less of a tyrant than I think history paints him as. I didn't care for the end. There was a real opportunity there to really make an impact, but I found her use of Catherine as one of Anne's ladies in the tower unrealistic. It would have been more dramatic if she'd had Mary present at Anne's execution because I believe that she probably was.
I have a copy of Warnicke's “…Rise and Fall….” and I found it hard to believe that it was classed as serious historical research, with so many assumptions made based on whatever direction Warnicke saw fit to go in.
10:39 am
November 18, 2010
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Claire-Louise said:
If anyone has ever read the Wideacre trilogy by PG, then perhaps they will agree with me, it shows the author's ability to write a novel in a specific time period that is descriptive and vivid, and also has it's fair share of controversy and drama. These novels however do not have characters based on real Historic figures and so it is far more easy to read them as a work of fiction without getting irritated by innacuracies.
I've read them in the past. I enjoyed them at the time, I don't know if I would now. I've read several books I liked in the past and now left me…meh!
It's always bunnies.
2:30 am
November 23, 2010
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I must admit, TOBG was the first Tudor novel I read and I really liked it at the time. Following on from there I read all her other Tudor novels one after the other and I loved them. Looking back now though, I think they are OK for a novel but they are very historically incorrect. Now I have learnt more about the Tudors, I have come to appreciate other Tudor novelist who actually try to stick to the facts and try to stay clear of novels that just make it up as they go along so to speak. I have the Red Queen and White Queen yet to read by Gregory, but I keep moving them to the bottom of the pile of books, if her novels are anything to go by
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11:54 am
August 3, 2010
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My feeling about Philippa Gregory is that if you are not particularly interested in the Tudors and are not aware of what is historically incorrect about her books, she is a talented writer and her books are good novels. However, if you're the type of person (like me) who hates unecessary historical inaccuracies, her novels can be quite infuriating.
"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"
