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Historical Fiction and Historical Accuracy
October 12, 2012
4:09 pm
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Claire
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An interesting article by James Forrester AKA Ian Mortimer came up in my Google alerts – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..58221.html. In it, he writes:

“Mantel was speaking in conjunction with the historian David Loades, who maintained that historians have a responsibility not to misrepresent or ‘change’ the past. Mantel claimed that novelists have a similar responsibility: she particularly castigated the historical series The Tudors for conflating two historical characters into one to simplify the story. And then she went further, saying how novelists have a responsibility to be authentic.”

I found this very interesting coming from Mantel, who I don’t believe was accurate in her books.

I have no problem with historical fiction unless the author makes out that it is historically accurate and it’s not. What do you think?

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

October 12, 2012
4:28 pm
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Louise
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Despite the large ball of burning indignation, which is threatening to burst one of my blood vessels, I’ll try to respond. Bearing in mind the fact that Bring Out Your Dead had about the same level of historical accuracy as The Other Boleyn Girl, I think Mantel brings a whole new meaning to the word hypocrisy.
She spends the entire novel misrepresenting the past. How dare she claim it’s historically accurate. It’s a lie. I wonder if she has any concept of the word ‘integrity’, or whether she is simply delusional’?

October 12, 2012
4:36 pm
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Claire
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Oh no, I don’t want to be responsible for you having a stroke, my dear!

I don’t know whether she feels differently now, as this conference took place last autumn, but I just found it weird. Perhaps she really does feel that she stuck to history, or her interpretation of history. I suppose it’s like G W Bernard who feels that there is evidence to suggest that Anne may have been guilty. I didn’t find either of Mantel’s books accurate and I did think that the second one was very similar to TOBG, albeit rather more “literary”.

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

October 12, 2012
4:55 pm
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Neil Kemp
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I think both PG and Mantel are writers of historical fiction. To claim their writing is historically accurate is piffle. They are both about as historically accurate as The Mad Hatter’s Tea Party.

October 12, 2012
5:36 pm
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Sharon
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Wait…Mantel claims she told the truth in her book? Isn’t she the one who had George crying at his trial in her book. We know for a fact that his defence of himself had the people betting on his being proven innocent. She has a lot of nerve saying authors should be accurate when writing fiction and non-fiction.

October 12, 2012
8:17 pm
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Louise
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I just wonder if many fictional writers feel under pressure to give the public what they think they want. So in order to sell they provide salacious fiction rather than historical fact. In other words they sell out integrity for cash.
It’s just that if that’s the case then why not just write fiction? Why involve real people? Unless it’s real why do it? I don’t get it.Frown

October 13, 2012
5:22 am
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Anyanka
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This is the reason I like scifi and fantasy…it’s not reeal.

However I expect my historial fiction to be 3 parts truth and 1 part speculation. And not the other way round.

It's always bunnies.

October 13, 2012
2:52 pm
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Claire
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Sharon said

Wait…Mantel claims she told the truth in her book? Isn’t she the one who had George crying at his trial in her book. We know for a fact that his defence of himself had the people betting on his being proven innocent. She has a lot of nerve saying authors should be accurate when writing fiction and non-fiction.

That’s exactly what I thought. She apparently criticised The Tudors for its inaccuracy, yet “Bring Up the Bodies” is definitely not accurate. People have defended Mantel’s work by saying “but, it’s fiction” but here is Mantel claiming that it’s wrong for historical fiction authors to misrepresent history and be inaccurate. I just don’t get it.

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

October 13, 2012
2:56 pm
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Claire
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Louise said

I just wonder if many fictional writers feel under pressure to give the public what they think they want. So in order to sell they provide salacious fiction rather than historical fact. In other words they sell out integrity for cash.
It’s just that if that’s the case then why not just write fiction? Why involve real people? Unless it’s real why do it? I don’t get it.Frown

This is why I’m having a completely fictional character as my main character in my fiction piece, which may never see the light of day anyway. I want it to be obvious that it’s a story, rather than a history book. If it ever gets finished and published then my author’s notes will also explain that it’s a work of fiction. I don’t want people to get confused because of something I write.

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

October 13, 2012
4:45 pm
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Sharon
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Louise said

I just wonder if many fictional writers feel under pressure to give the public what they think they want. So in order to sell they provide salacious fiction rather than historical fact. In other words they sell out integrity for cash.
It’s just that if that’s the case then why not just write fiction? Why involve real people? Unless it’s real why do it? I don’t get it.Frown

Apparently these authors think the larger audience of readers out there can’t handle the truth. The real history is just as fascinating and sometimes as salacious as the fictional accounts. Writers should give it a shot.
Mantel, being an historian, should be able to write an excellent historical fiction about this period. These people are fascinating. Why make them monsters or fools when they were just people trying to survive.
Anyanka,
I like fantasy too. It’s true stuff though! Wink

October 13, 2012
8:20 pm
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Boleyn
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Sharon you are apsolutely right.. Most people have a romancised idea of history and when faced with cold hard facts, just can’t handle it.
We are in so many ways just like those in our past doing the best we can to survive. Right or wrong, good or bad we muddle through life best we can, and we aren’t infallible we make mistakes (that why pencils have erasers) just as those of our past did, but we learn from them just as they did and move on.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

October 13, 2012
9:55 pm
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Claire
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Sharon said

Apparently these authors think the larger audience of readers out there can’t handle the truth. The real history is just as fascinating and sometimes as salacious as the fictional accounts. Writers should give it a shot.
Mantel, being an historian, should be able to write an excellent historical fiction about this period. These people are fascinating. Why make them monsters or fools when they were just people trying to survive.
Anyanka,
I like fantasy too. It’s true stuff though! Wink

Exactly! Why twist these stories when the truth is so exciting!

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

October 14, 2012
6:14 am
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Gill
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This is exactly why I rarely read historical fiction. The way they twist the truth beyond recognition just annoys the hell out of me and spoils any enjoyment I might get from the book.

October 14, 2012
6:50 am
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Jasmine
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Historical fiction is just that, fiction – it may be loosely based on ‘facts’ and contain ‘real’ historical characters, but it is fiction nevertheless. I rather like those books which include an appendix at the end where the author makes clear where his/her opinions or inventions differ from the historical record, so that the reader is left in no doubt that what they have read is fiction.

I dislike writers like Alison Weir, who describe themselves as ‘historians’ when writing fiction. This simply confuses the reader who might assume that the novel is a true account of history, in a fictional form.

However, a lot of people are ‘brought’ to true history from reading historical fiction, so we should be grateful that the fiction elements often cause them to investigate a favourite ‘character’ or incident.

October 14, 2012
10:45 am
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Louise
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The problem is, Jasmine, that some fiction writers like Weir, Gregory and Mantel, who write completely inaccurate nonsense, tell the public that they’re writing fact. Unfortunately many people, therefore, believe what they write is factual. That’s not true and they are actually deliberately pulling the wool over peoples eyes. That’s totally wrong.
Some people are interested enough to turn to history, but many more just accept the fiction without ever researching the facts. That’s very damaging, especially to the real life characters whic are defamed in the fiction.

October 14, 2012
11:09 am
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Jasmine
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Yes, Louise, I totally agree – that’s why I hate it when the publicity stuff for Weir novels mention that she is a ‘historian’.

However, there has been some excellent historical fiction written – for example ‘We Speak no Treason’ and ‘Sunne in Splendour’ – both novels about Richard III.

Even the bad ones can, for some, be a starting point for their own research. However, I am sure there are also people out there who simply accept what is written as true. That is certainly the case for stuff on the Internet where people automatically assume it’s true, because it is on the web.

October 14, 2012
1:46 pm
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Claire
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I think that authors need to take responsibility for their work, particularly when it is well-known that some readers (many readers) are believing that their work is a retelling of history. All it take is a warning at the start and a good “author’s note” section at the back. Perhaps some extras on the book website about the author’s research and their fiction ideas etc.

Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn

October 14, 2012
5:42 pm
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DuchessofBrittany
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Claire said

I think that authors need to take responsibility for their work, particularly when it is well-known that some readers (many readers) are believing that their work is a retelling of history. All it take is a warning at the start and a good “author’s note” section at the back. Perhaps some extras on the book website about the author’s research and their fiction ideas etc.

I agree, Claire. I’ve read some excelllent historical fiction, where the author clearly states was is fact, and what is fiction or dramatised. It made the book more effective, since the reader is being told where that fine line was drawn. Elizabeth Chadwick, in my opinion, is an excellent example of this, although she never refers to herself as an historian, though. She makes clear notations about what is real, espcially when she did make changes for better fluidity when writing, what she guessed at, and what is complete fabrication.

My issue with Weir, Gregory and that lot is their insistence to pass themselves off as something their not. Thus, in a credentialist society, anyone who professes to be an “historian” (an increasingly loose and fluid term), even without the actual degrees, can demand a certain “I’m the expert, trust me” scenerio. So people are sucked into skillful marketing, books wrapped in shiny packages and blinds people to deplorable contents within. But, because these people are “experts” and “historians,” the masses will gulp up utter trifle and take it as gospel.

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

October 14, 2012
5:47 pm
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Jasmine
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It is my understanding that PG has a degree in history and a PhD. Alison Weir trained as a teacher and may have taken history as her main subject.
My quibble is that they quote their background as ‘historians’. then write fiction with large chunks of made-up bits, but by splashing the word ‘historian’ in relation to the fiction they write naturally makes a connection in the mind of the reader that their fiction is also ‘true’.

October 14, 2012
8:23 pm
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Anyanka
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I’m not sure what her BA is in but her PhD is in 18th century literature.

It's always bunnies.

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