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8:22 pm
December 5, 2009
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Boleyn said
I read something the other day, We know that it took a long time for Jane to get pregnant after she married Henry and at one stage there was talk that he was going to toss her aside because of it.. Was it possible that Henry was suffering from Gonadotropin? Could this be a reason to why Henry couldn’t father anymore children after Edward? From what I read it’s said that it can cause impotence in a man. In a woman can produce false pregnancy symptoms. Now this is just a thought I’m in no way suggesting it as fact..
Alternatively he was just a tosser. Perhaps that was the only truely accurate depiction of Henry in The Tudors.
Joking aside I think the thing that was wrong with Henry was that too many people said yes to him too many times. If you’re treated like a God for long enough, human nature being as it is, you start believing you are God.
9:32 pm
May 7, 2010
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Henry married when he was young and in time went off his missus, he went through a lot of trauma to divorce her and then married the other woman, when that fell apart he killed her and married a different type who conveniently died after dropping off a son, as a widower he married again to a mail order bride who turned out not to fit his idea of an attractive wife so he divorced her and married a young, nubile chick but by this time he was a bit of an old pig and probably impotent into the bargain so when he found out she was using a surrogate he killed her and then married an older woman who would be less likely to act like the court bicycle and was comfortable, accepting of his grossness, could ignore the stink that followed him about and had enough brains to get through each day and ultimately survive him.
If you take out the killing of two wives there is nothing really weird or strange in that is there? How many people even today when marriages are not arranged (well not in my culture anyway) divorce, have other women or other men, marry younger women from foreign lands in the hope of regaining their own youth and vigour, are widowed through no fault of their own, marry for companionship, marry much younger women because they like the idea of fresh meat? And as far as the killing of two wives goes – well how many wives get murdered too in these ‘more civilised’ times?
In Henry’s time he did go through a lot of women but in his position he had to be married to all these women in his search for a legitimate heir. He couldn’t just spread it about a bit once Katherine and Anne had gone and he was a single man – not as King looking for an heir anyway.
I suppose Henry did have his share of health problems, his fall from the horse gave him a right whack on the head, his poisoned leg and the pain that gave him, his girth which would have made breathing and moving around difficult and been a strain on his heart but I think sometimes there is too much dissection of possibilities when really he was just a chap who went through a few women and ‘murdered’ two of them. Sometimes the simple thing is best.
I suppose the point is that Henry’s health didn’t have anything to do with the fate of his wives – not really. He was King, he needed legitimate children, the people around him were forever telling him he could do this that and the other so why be shocked or have to find a health reason when he did just what he wanted and thought himself almost a God on Earth?
I think he was just the man his times/courtiers/advisors and self awareness made him.
That is not to say I don’t feel all the pain and horror of the fate of some of the women but Henry was much more than just a much married man.
Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60
10:10 pm
January 3, 2012
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Louise said
Boleyn said
I read something the other day, We know that it took a long time for Jane to get pregnant after she married Henry and at one stage there was talk that he was going to toss her aside because of it.. Was it possible that Henry was suffering from Gonadotropin? Could this be a reason to why Henry couldn’t father anymore children after Edward? From what I read it’s said that it can cause impotence in a man. In a woman can produce false pregnancy symptoms. Now this is just a thought I’m in no way suggesting it as fact..
Alternatively he was just a tosser. Perhaps that was the only truely accurate depiction of Henry in The Tudors.
Joking aside I think the thing that was wrong with Henry was that too many people said yes to him too many times. If you’re treated like a God for long enough, human nature being as it is, you start believing you are God.
LOL love it Clare.. Subtle as a brick end, but a very apt description none the less… Yep I rather feel that Henry was nothing more than a petulant spoilt brat, he’s actually the sort of person who could have benefitted from having a few damn good hidings, when younger.
He was so far up his own backside with the B.S that his Yes Men fed him with every minute of everyday, that he spent the whole of his life wondering around on all fours looking for the lightswitch.. He simply didn’t and wouldn’t except any responsibility for anything he said or did..
People died at his hand but it wasn’t his fault. Well DUH didn’t he have to sign the death warrants?
Henry is famous, but he is also infamous too. Famous for having six wives and kicking the Pope up his backside and making himself head of the Church.. Infamous for murdering 2 wives, divorcing 2 wives allowing one to die (this is loosely worded over a sentence he is allegedely said when Jane was having difficulty in giving birth to Edward) and making his last wife’s life a misery. Alienating his children from him too.
As silly as this sounds and you all know my off the latch theories by now.. I wonder if Henry was actually a little jealous of his kids? as they were stealing a bit of the Henry Tudor show, and he didn’t really like the idea of having to share his stage with anyone else. They and more so Edward, then Elizabeth or Mary also reminded him that sometime soon he would have to do his final curtain call and that was simply something he didn’t want to face. If Henry didn’t like something he tended to forget or refused to believe it even existed.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
3:47 am
February 24, 2012
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Henry liked to surround himself with yes men and there were certainly lots of those. It’s really not surprising though. If you didn’t agree with Henry, you would likely be in the Tower or in a grave somewhere. He was an obnoxious, spoiled, self-serving, selfish, self-centred, fat, smelly tyrant who wouldn’t take responsibility for anything bad that happened. Everything was always someone else’s fault. Personally, I think he was at least a sociopath. He chased after Anne for years, saying he loved her. Then not so long after, wanted to be rid of her because she didn’t give him a son. What the heck kind of love is that??? Plus, he’d already picked out and wooed her replacement! The man was unbelieveable!!
Boleyn, I think your theory has some merit, especially with Edward. As much as Henry wanted a son, when he would see Edward being groomed to one day be king, it must have been a bit of a slap in the face for Henry, knowing his time would be up and Edward would take over. I don’t think he wouldn’t like any of his children stealing some of his precious spotlight.
7:36 pm
January 3, 2012
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OK another off the latch idea from Boleyn’s brain for you to ponder on..
All her life Mary Tudor had been plagued with health issues of one sort or another. Her period were know to be erractic and she was troubled with nausiating Headaches in times of stress, as was Elizabeth. That could be explained away because both of them were under a great deal of stress When Henry was alive..
Anyway it has been suggested that Mary was suffering from a pituary tumour. The symptoms of which can be headaches, poor eyesight, and missed periods, and infetility as well as premature aging, and irrational temper. All of these symptoms were exhibited by Mary. Could also explain why she exhibited all the signs of pregnancy when she actually wasn’t, although to be fair part of it was wishful thinking too. She was under a lot of stress from Philip and for her people, and England of course, as she knew if she didn’t come up with a baby Philip would leave her (which he did) her people would turn against her (which they did) and if the child died England would be ruled by a bastard protestant Elizabeth. Stress does very strange thing to a person but even more so if you aren’t to well in the first place….
I wonder whether Henry had the same had the same condition although in his case the tumour was dormant until the blow to his head made it active. In my opinion it does seem as if the problems he had after that fall seem to fit what is know about pituary tumours. Henry did have blinding headaches, frequent mood swings, poor eyesight and as we know Jane took quite a time to get pregnant so this tumour could have also affected his fetility too. It could also explain why he became so fat too, his body after his fall was unable to process the food he ate as it once had.. Granted he was a very active man before his fall, but I don’t believe many Kings before or after Henry became so huge even with or without exercise…
This is just a off the latch idea of mine not to be taken as sacrosanct..
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
1:29 am
June 15, 2012
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Someone earlier in thread mentioned diabetes and I do think that is a very plausible cause. At work I’ve become very familiar with the symptoms of uncontrolled diabetes, as well as how brain damage can affect people’s personality. Very high blood sugars in particular can cause some very nasty, aggressive, unpredictable behaviour indeed. Ulcers that won’t heal are another common symptom. I think it’s quite possible that as Henry got older, with his bad diet and increasing weight, he may have developed diabetes. Add that in with an overinflated sense of self, and believing that you are god’s annointed and you can do no wrong, and what have you got?
8:10 pm
January 30, 2013
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One of my friends believes he had a knock to the head which could have caused brain damage and of course it depends where the damage is done but it might have made him more aggressive and power hungry and lacking in morality.
6:32 pm
January 3, 2012
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Alison said
One of my friends believes he had a knock to the head which could have caused brain damage and of course it depends where the damage is done but it might have made him more aggressive and power hungry and lacking in morality.
That is possible Alison. Up until that point Henry had always had robust health, and rarely had much illness and if he did he quickly threw it off and was rarely affected by it. However the jousting accident changed that apart from the ulcer on his leg which wouldn’t heal, properly and if it did show any sign of healing up, his leg would swell and the Doctor Butts would have to cut it open to drain it. He was plagued by blinding headaches, and I think he had trouble with his waterworks too. It’s interely possible to that he suffered from impotance too as Jane did take a while to get pregnant where as Anne and COA got pregnant very quickly, and judging by the fact that he had loud and noisy sex with K.H often (I discount AOC and K.P althought she is a matter of speculation) that K.H didn’t once get pregnant. It could be that K.H knew enough to prevent pregnancy (Rudimentary birth control) It’s an interesting thought to why Henry went suddenly mad and lost control of his life and his realm to a certain degree.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
7:27 pm
February 24, 2010
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Although he did have a jousting accident in January of 1536, in which his horse fell on him and he supposedly was knocked out for two hours, I cannot in all honesty believe that all of his behavior can be blamed on this accident. What about the deaths he caused before the accident, along with his cruelty toward Katherine and Mary? What about the killing of his best friend, Thomas More? More, who had loved him, and someone Henry claimed to love, wouldn’t take an oath. More was happily enjoying his retirement and would never have said anything against his king. Why did Henry feel compelled to bring More out of retirement to sign it? Henry just got it in his head that More had to sign that oath and that was all there was to it. It goes to Henry’s need for power over everyone. This guy had a mean streak in him, and I am unwilling to say that this accident caused it. I think what he did to Anne and his friends in 1536 haunted him, and made him an even crueler and more spiteful man. And I think these events would have happened the way they didwhether or not he fell from that horse.
8:05 pm
January 31, 2013
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‘Tis true that Henry sustained injuries during his many exertions. But In my opinion, the ‘knocks’ on the head only served to make a bad man worse.
8:37 am
January 3, 2012
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Sharon said
Although he did have a jousting accident in January of 1536, in which his horse fell on him and he supposedly was knocked out for two hours, I cannot in all honesty believe that all of his behavior can be blamed on this accident. What about the deaths he caused before the accident, along with his cruelty toward Katherine and Mary? What about the killing of his best friend, Thomas More? More, who had loved him, and someone Henry claimed to love, wouldn’t take an oath. More was happily enjoying his retirement and would never have said anything against his king. Why did Henry feel compelled to bring More out of retirement to sign it? Henry just got it in his head that More had to sign that oath and that was all there was to it. It goes to Henry’s need for power over everyone. This guy had a mean streak in him, and I am unwilling to say that this accident caused it. I think what he did to Anne and his friends in 1536 haunted him, and made him an even crueler and more spiteful man. And I think these events would have happened the way they didwhether or not he fell from that horse.
This is true Sharon, all those things, must have put a tremendious amount of stress of the balance of his mind so yes in a way although his accident did seem in some way to change his behaviour it wasn’t the main catalyst to it all. If you think aboout it even after his fall COA’s Death, Anne’s murder, his behaviour got steadily worse. He tormented Mary into signing away her soul, which ultimitely changed her. The pilgramage of grace was an all out mass murder, so he terrorised his people. Cromwell was chopped up, as was K.H and Margeret Pole (Thant execution was nothing but pure spite from Henry over the home truths Reggy Pole had said) and terrorised K.P into backing down. The only person who didn’t seem to have suffered from his malice and vindictiveness, was Anne of Cleves.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
