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Richard III
March 29, 2013
1:25 pm
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Boleyn
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black_mamba said

Anyanka said

I’d have thought that Queen Elizabeth should have a say in where he’s buried.

You would think, huh? I mean she probably is more closely related to him, then many others…

Actually the Queen isn’t related to anymore closely than the bloke they did the DNA test on. In fact the bloke is probably closer in kinship.. Queen Lizzy 2 bloodline is more Germanic than anything else, she has got a very small amount of Plantagnant blood in her veins but not enough to make a lot of difference. Either way once the big hue and cry had died down I hope that an agreement can be reached to satify all concerns. However I wa given to believe that the bones of Richard were to be given over to the relatives anyway.
Black Mambo Yeah I agree with you about your perception of Richard. He was a very remarkable man. Makes you wonder just what sort of king he would have made if he had won the battle of Bosworth. Would he have married KOA instead?

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 29, 2013
1:35 pm
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Jasmine
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After the death of his wife, Richard was negotiating for a marriage with Joanna of Portugal, someone with legitimate Lancastrian blood. If he had lived, then he would have reunited the white and red roses. Failing agreement with Joanna, his second choice was Isabella, the eldest daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain and the eldest sister of KOA.

March 29, 2013
2:37 pm
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Boleyn
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Jasmine said

After the death of his wife, Richard was negotiating for a marriage with Joanna of Portugal, someone with legitimate Lancastrian blood. If he had lived, then he would have reunited the white and red roses. Failing agreement with Joanna, his second choice was Isabella, the eldest daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain and the eldest sister of KOA.

Thank you Jasmine. So it certainly looks like Spain may have been involved somewhere along the line, if Richard had won Bosworth.
Personally I would have thought he would have perhaps gone for a French match, or maybe even a Scottish match. It also makes me wonder if the pretenders would have reared their heads as well. We all know that Richard’s sister supported both pretenders would she have done that if Richard had won Bosworth?

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 29, 2013
2:52 pm
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Jasmine
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I think he chose Portugal because of the Lancastrian blood (via John of Gaunt’s daughter Phillippa of Lancaster, who married a Portuguese king and was the mother of Henry the Navigator). Their children therefore would have had both Yorkist and legitimate Lancastrian blood and would have ended the feud.

I think if Richard had won at Bosworth, he might have been troubled by pretenders, if his nephews remained ‘disappeared’ but I doubt Margaret would have supported any threat against her brother.

One of the theories of what happened to his nephews is that he sent them abroad to Margaret for safekeeping.

March 29, 2013
2:58 pm
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Jasmine
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Boleyn said
“…Actually the Queen isn’t related to anymore closely than the bloke they did the DNA test on. In fact the bloke is probably closer in kinship.. Queen Lizzy 2 bloodline is more Germanic than anything else, she has got a very small amount of Plantagnant blood in her veins but not enough to make a lot of difference. Either way once the big hue and cry had died down I hope that an agreement can be reached to satify all concerns. However I wa given to believe that the bones of Richard were to be given over to the relatives anyway…”

I would suggest that any descendant of the Plantagenets would have a very small proportion of Plantagenet blood in their veins, given the number of generations – around 18-20, including the lot who are complaining they were not consulted about where Richard should be buried. I don’t think anyone 20 generations away from an individual can really be considered a ‘relative’. It’s not as if they exchanged Christmas cards and kept in touch, is it Smile

There is, it seems, no legal obligation to consult ‘relatives’ if the individual is more than 100 years old.

March 29, 2013
4:36 pm
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Boleyn
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Jasmine said

Boleyn said
“…Actually the Queen isn’t related to anymore closely than the bloke they did the DNA test on. In fact the bloke is probably closer in kinship.. Queen Lizzy 2 bloodline is more Germanic than anything else, she has got a very small amount of Plantagnant blood in her veins but not enough to make a lot of difference. Either way once the big hue and cry had died down I hope that an agreement can be reached to satify all concerns. However I wa given to believe that the bones of Richard were to be given over to the relatives anyway…”

I would suggest that any descendant of the Plantagenets would have a very small proportion of Plantagenet blood in their veins, given the number of generations – around 18-20, including the lot who are complaining they were not consulted about where Richard should be buried. I don’t think anyone 20 generations away from an individual can really be considered a ‘relative’. It’s not as if they exchanged Christmas cards and kept in touch, is it Smile

There is, it seems, no legal obligation to consult ‘relatives’ if the individual is more than 100 years old.

Thank you Jasmine, and yes you ae completely right. I can remember the local church in the villiage I lived in as a kid, there was something like that mentioned when the Church was decommissioned and was turned into flats. Most of the grave stones that were over 100 years old were removed, whilst those who were faily recent had to stay put and the relative allowed to visit the graves when they wanted. I think that 3 geneations of a family member have to die out before the stone can be removed. Not too sure on this one though.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 29, 2013
5:45 pm
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black_mamba
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Boleyn said

black_mamba said

Anyanka said

I’d have thought that Queen Elizabeth should have a say in where he’s buried.

You would think, huh? I mean she probably is more closely related to him, then many others…

Actually the Queen isn’t related to anymore closely than the bloke they did the DNA test on. In fact the bloke is probably closer in kinship.. Queen Lizzy 2 bloodline is more Germanic than anything else, she has got a very small amount of Plantagnant blood in her veins but not enough to make a lot of difference. Either way once the big hue and cry had died down I hope that an agreement can be reached to satify all concerns. However I wa given to believe that the bones of Richard were to be given over to the relatives anyway.
Black Mambo Yeah I agree with you about your perception of Richard. He was a very remarkable man. Makes you wonder just what sort of king he would have made if he had won the battle of Bosworth. Would he have married KOA instead?

Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D….._William_I

Appearantly, Richard III is her 14th Great Grand Uncle, Her 14th Great Grandfather being Edward IV, brother to Richard. But, you are right about her German blood. All those Georges….Laugh
Oh, what’s really cool is some of the other stuff in Elizabeth’s genealogy:

***The descent from the Kings of Scotland

Margaret Tudor, daughter of Henry VII, married into the Scottish royal family by marrying James IV of Scotland. Her great-grandson James VI of Scotland succeeded to the English crown as James I of England. Elizabeth II thus also descends from Kenneth MacAlpin, the semi-legendary first King of Scotland.

****The descent from the Danish Kings of England

King Sweyn Forkbeard of Denmark invaded England in 1013, drove out King Æthelred the Unready, and was proclaimed King of England by the Witenagemot. Sweyn reigned in England till his death in 1014. King Aethelred then regained the throne and was succeeded by his son Edmund II Ironside in 1016. However, Edmund died in 1016. The House of Denmark was restored under Sweyn’s son Canute and ruled England for the next 26 years. Sweyn’s male line ended in 1042, and the English throne reverted back to the House of Wessex. Sweyn’s descendants through his daughter Estrid continued to rule Denmark. James III of Scotland married one of his descendants, Margaret of Denmark, introducing Sweyn’s bloodline into the Scottish royal blood line, and when James VI of Scotland inherited the English throne in 1603, the English royal bloodline as well.

I think she’s even descended from the Irish Kings as well. How COOL is that? Laugh
Embarassed I’m such a nerd…

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

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