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Richard III
February 7, 2013
8:51 pm
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Anyanka
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Plus armour was custom-made for each person to ensure the best fit possible. HAving your king tuggiing at ill-fitting armour doesn’t do the morale of his troops any good. Any craftsman worth his salt would be able to make armour to fit any-one regardless of age or disability.

While common soldiers would have grabbed what was the best fit, a nobleman’s armour was a staus symbol as well as a piece of protective clothing.

It's always bunnies.

February 7, 2013
9:05 pm
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KellyMarie
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Exactly, they just have no use of logic in their claims. They want to defend their favourite historical figure which of course we can all understand, but seriously they need to use better logic and stronger arguments if they’re going tomake a difference. That would be like us solely basing the fact that Anne didn’t have a sixth finger purely because she wore gloves lol…..theres a lot more to it than that!!

Woohoo I'm normal...gotta go tell the cat!

February 7, 2013
11:09 pm
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Gill
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DuchessofBrittany said

Regardless, the facial reconstruction is wonderfully done. Richard was certainly an attractive man, although his portraits do not always reflect this. This entire event has made me more interested in this era, and now I need to search for some books on Richard III, etc.

You have to remember none of the existing portraits were painted in his lifetime, but during the reign of Henry VII. They made a point of making him look mean – narrowed eyes, pursed lips etc, because for Henry’s usurpation of the throne to have any validity it was important to portray the man he dethroned as an utter villain. Given that there is a resemblance with what we now know Richard looked like I would hazard a guess that extant portraits were based on one painted from life, but ‘doctored’ to give him a meaner face.

February 8, 2013
8:31 am
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Boleyn
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Anyanka said

Plus armour was custom-made for each person to ensure the best fit possible. HAving your king tuggiing at ill-fitting armour doesn’t do the morale of his troops any good. Any craftsman worth his salt would be able to make armour to fit any-one regardless of age or disability.

While common soldiers would have grabbed what was the best fit, a nobleman’s armour was a staus symbol as well as a piece of protective clothing.

Fot the common riff raff armour was generally whatever they could pilfer from the battlefields after the event, whilst it would be usual for the nobility to perhaps be buried in it. For the most part the common riff raff’s or arrow fodder soliders wore clothes stuffed with straw, and basically tried to keep their heads down.
Henry’s armour changed so much since the days of his youth, and I have heard that he kept a team of armourers with him when he went on his last campaign in France to adapt his armour when his leg swelled up etc..I.e cutting pieces out of him .. I mean out of it and inserting another plate.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

February 8, 2013
8:53 am
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Gill
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I actually saw a program about this a few weeks ago. Apparently a lot of common foot soldiers wore a kind of padded jacket made of layers of linen, called a gambeson. They tested one out – they put one on a pig carcass and fired an arrow at it, and the gambeson – much to everyone’s surprise – actually stopped the arrow. It wouldn’t stop an axe or a sword blade, but it definitely offered some protection at least.

March 26, 2013
7:11 pm
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DuchessofBrittany
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It seems the Richard III Saga continues…. I am not too sure of the accuracy of the posted link; it’s from the Daily Fail afterall….

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new…..IGHTS.html

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

March 27, 2013
12:30 pm
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Boleyn
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DuchessofBrittany said

It seems the Richard III Saga continues…. I am not too sure of the accuracy of the posted link; it’s from the Daily Fail afterall….

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new…..IGHTS.html

Thank you for sharing this with us Duchess. Hope you are ok by the way, your’ve been fairly quiet of late.
It’s certainly a very interesting article, and to be honest the relatives have got a point. As Richard’s kith and kin they should be given the right to say where they wish his remains to be buried. I feel that the bloody silly woman who was flouncing about like a tit in an trance in the programme that revealed the truth, seemed to think that as she was in charge of everything including Richard’s remains. What she fails or seems to fail to understand that without the relatives she wouldn’t have been able to prove that she had found Richard in the first place.
Personally I feel thar Richard should be buried alongside his wife in Wesminster Abbey. Although I do strongly feel that Richard’s kith and Kin should be given their rights to bury Richard where they see fit. Maybe the only solution to it all is 1. Bury his remains in York Minster and 2. put a memorial plaque in Leicester Catherdral. mentioning that King Richard 3rd died at Bosworth and his remains were found Blah Blah and that his remains were reinterred in York Minster.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 27, 2013
1:00 pm
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black_mamba
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Boleyn said

DuchessofBrittany said

It seems the Richard III Saga continues…. I am not too sure of the accuracy of the posted link; it’s from the Daily Fail afterall….

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new…..IGHTS.html

Thank you for sharing this with us Duchess. Hope you are ok by the way, your’ve been fairly quiet of late.
It’s certainly a very interesting article, and to be honest the relatives have got a point. As Richard’s kith and kin they should be given the right to say where they wish his remains to be buried. I feel that the bloody silly woman who was flouncing about like a tit in an trance in the programme that revealed the truth, seemed to think that as she was in charge of everything including Richard’s remains. What she fails or seems to fail to understand that without the relatives she wouldn’t have been able to prove that she had found Richard in the first place.
Personally I feel thar Richard should be buried alongside his wife in Wesminster Abbey. Although I do strongly feel that Richard’s kith and Kin should be given their rights to bury Richard where they see fit. Maybe the only solution to it all is 1. Bury his remains in York Minster and 2. put a memorial plaque in Leicester Catherdral. mentioning that King Richard 3rd died at Bosworth and his remains were found Blah Blah and that his remains were reinterred in York Minster.

Thanks for the post Duchess!

I agree Boleyn! Sounds like a simple enough solution. Or maybe they can bury half his bones in Leicester Cathedral and the other half in York Minster. Laugh

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

March 27, 2013
3:17 pm
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Jasmine
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All this tosh about ‘relatives’. As we all have 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 great great grandparents etc etc for 500 years, we are all probably Richard’s ‘kith and kin’ when it comes down to it. There is no obligation to consult ‘relatives’ about the burial or reburial of a person more than 100 years old, so there was no need to trace these ‘relatives’ and ask their opinion.

Where were all these concerned relatives when Richard’s body was lost for all those years? Where were the campaigns they led to have the area researched? Where was the money they contributed to the search for Richard III? No where and nothing is the answer. Now he has been found, they want to jump on the bandwagon. They have set up a limited company – note that it is not a ‘not-for-profit’ company, but an ordinary corporation. They are asking for donations but I wonder how much the directors will be paid for their ‘work’.

There is absolutely no evidence that Richard wish to be buried in York. He set up chantry chapels there, but he also did that in other places. His wife is in Westminster Abbey and the burial of his son has been lost. If he had had a normal length reign, he would probably have been buried in Westminster with his wife, or in St George’s, Windsor – the church his brother built and where Edward IV was buried.

March 27, 2013
3:22 pm
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Jasmine
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Someone earlier mentioned ‘…the woman ….flouncing about like a tit in a trance…..’

Without her, Richard would not have been found. She singlehandedly talked often reluctant people from the various authorities into carrying out the excavation in the first place. It took her around 2 years to get all the approvals and sponsors. When one of the sponsors pulled out at the last minute, she personally raised the required sum of money to allow the dig to go head. I think that gives her more ‘rights’ than a group of people who waited until all the work had been done and then jumped in with their opinions on what should happen.

I went to a talk given by Philippa Langley, the woman behind the search for Richard III. She said that the TV company took over 60 hours of film, yet managed to edit it so that it looked as if she spent the entire time in an emotionally wrecked state. I guess that was the film company’s idea of a ‘human interest’ slant.

March 27, 2013
3:45 pm
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Louise
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Typical! Even when you’ve been dead for over five-hundred years, your family still end up arguing over your funeral arrangements.

March 27, 2013
4:28 pm
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black_mamba
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Louise said

Typical! Even when you’ve been dead for over five-hundred years, your family still end up arguing over your funeral arrangements.

Laugh

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

March 27, 2013
5:27 pm
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Boleyn
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Jasmine said

Someone earlier mentioned ‘…the woman ….flouncing about like a tit in a trance…..’

Without her, Richard would not have been found. She singlehandedly talked often reluctant people from the various authorities into carrying out the excavation in the first place. It took her around 2 years to get all the approvals and sponsors. When one of the sponsors pulled out at the last minute, she personally raised the required sum of money to allow the dig to go head. I think that gives her more ‘rights’ than a group of people who waited until all the work had been done and then jumped in with their opinions on what should happen.

I went to a talk given by Philippa Langley, the woman behind the search for Richard III. She said that the TV company took over 60 hours of film, yet managed to edit it so that it looked as if she spent the entire time in an emotionally wrecked state. I guess that was the film company’s idea of a ‘human interest’ slant.

It was me that said that Jasmine.. I will give her a lot of credit for what she has done. But I just felt that she was being so big headed it about it all. playing the big I am etc. So perhaps my usage of the words “flouncing about like a tit in a trance” wasn’t really very fair on her, but her attitude just seem to get right up my bugle for some reason.. There is no doubt that finding Richard is the biggest find since the Princes as I’ve already mentioned in a previous post however.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 27, 2013
5:28 pm
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Boleyn
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Louise said

Typical! Even when you’ve been dead for over five-hundred years, your family still end up arguing over your funeral arrangements.

LOL Louise. Well you know what they say don’t you? “where there is a will there’s relatives.”

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 27, 2013
5:42 pm
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Jasmine
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Boleyn said

It was me that said that Jasmine.. I will give her a lot of credit for what she has done. But I just felt that she was being so big headed it about it all. playing the big I am etc. So perhaps my usage of the words “flouncing about like a tit in a trance” wasn’t really very fair on her, but her attitude just seem to get right up my bugle for some reason.. There is no doubt that finding Richard is the biggest find since the Princes as I’ve already mentioned in a previous post however.

As I said, a lot of the way she came across in the Channel 4 film was due to the editing of the 60 hours of film. She was emotional at times, but given the fact that she had been striving to get the excavation underway for so long, and it took a lot of persuasion and effort, it is understandable.

One of the interesting things she said about the editing was concerned with the bit where Dr Appleby said ‘…he’s a hunchback….’ and the film cut to Philippa saying ‘…no…no…’ she in fact said, ‘No, no, it can’t be because……..’ and of course they didn’t show her argument about the mistaken identification of scoliosis as a hunchback – better TV, I guess. But the overall impression was of a crazy woman unwilling to accept something.

You’ll be pleased to know that when I saw her, she was completely rational, witty and not emotional, but still very enthusiastic about the tremendous find that had been made, and very keen to see that Richard got an honourable reburial.Smile

March 27, 2013
5:45 pm
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Jasmine
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By the way, we don’t know if the princes have been found yet – the bones in the urn have not been properly investigated.

March 27, 2013
8:46 pm
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Boleyn
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Jasmine said

By the way, we don’t know if the princes have been found yet – the bones in the urn have not been properly investigated.

Again this is true Jasmine, perhaps once the dust has settled a little the powers that be may just decide to do a test on the bones that were found and were believed to be the Princes. Even if the powers that be carry out this test all it will prove is that they have been found, it won’t prove who killed them and why.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 27, 2013
10:39 pm
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black_mamba
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Boleyn said

Jasmine said

By the way, we don’t know if the princes have been found yet – the bones in the urn have not been properly investigated.

Again this is true Jasmine, perhaps once the dust has settled a little the powers that be may just decide to do a test on the bones that were found and were believed to be the Princes. Even if the powers that be carry out this test all it will prove is that they have been found, it won’t prove who killed them and why.

Very true. Even if they ARE the princes, this doesn’t mean Richard murdered them. Or why. Richard is a very likely candidate as the person who ordered their deaths, but he is only one of many. And we don’t know what killed those boys that are in the urn, either. Even if they are proven to be his nephews, how they died is a mystery. For all we know disease or illness may have killed them.
The scolioisis finding gave me a new look at Richard though. It is very admirable that he didn’t let this get the best of him. You have to admire that.
Richard III is my 16th great uncle. Do I get a say in where he is buried? Smile

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

March 28, 2013
3:42 pm
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Anyanka
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I’d have thought that Queen Elizabeth should have a say in where he’s buried.

It's always bunnies.

March 28, 2013
8:51 pm
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black_mamba
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Anyanka said

I’d have thought that Queen Elizabeth should have a say in where he’s buried.

You would think, huh? I mean she probably is more closely related to him, then many others…

At times I almost dream, I too have spent a life the sages' way,
And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I perished in an arrogant self-reliance
Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer For one more chance went up so earnest, so
Instinct with better light let in by death, That life was blotted out—not so completely
But scattered wrecks enough of it remain Dim memories as now, when once more seems The goal in sight again. -- Robert Browning, Paracelsus

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