Marie Antoinette | Page 2 | Historical Debates | Forum

Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Marie Antoinette
July 17, 2011
9:44 am
Avatar
Catalina
Scotland
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 98
Member Since:
July 17, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

KOA aside, Marie Antoinette is my other favourite person in history.  The poor woman was just a scapegoat and misunderstood.

I love her so much I have a tattoo of her down the back of my left calf Laugh

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 11, 2011
5:54 am
Avatar
E
Member
Banned
Forum Posts: 256
Member Since:
May 19, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I thing Marie Antoinette is fascinating. I see her as a lonely woman, and wrongly blamed by the vicious unwashed masses. It's very sad that a woman who had no say in Government could be blamed for all and suffer such terrible treatment. She was in my opinion, very dignified and brave. According to Antonia Frasier, she and Louis had an opportunity to escape, but where slowed by their excessive baggage. STUPID! Of course they were recognised when Louis paid in coins with his face on them and detained…

Sigh.

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

August 11, 2011
11:16 am
Avatar
TheAwesome-B-Necklace
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 16
Member Since:
August 6, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I feel so bad for poor Marie Antoinette! I personally see her as a scapegoat for all the problems in France. And she was just a young girl in a new country! I also don't think that she was as frivolous and promiscuous as she is portrayed. Sure she spent a lot of money on clothes and cooky hairstyles, but didn't a lot of women do that? Like Anne Boleyn, she is a fascinating women whose true story may never be found out. 

Just a misunderstood women who got the short end of the stick in the end. The guillotine seems like such an unpleasant way to die – well any form of beheading is, but this one is just plain creepy! And why did they execute her – it's not like she had many, if any, supporters and friends who were going to help her get her throne back! Her husband was executed, and she was a mother! I just wish people who signed the death warrants knew that these people had families! And Marie Antoinette having a bad reputation doesn't make it any different! But the logic of those people was probably distorted by the amount of blood they shed and the power they gained through the blood. 

"To be or not to be, that is the question."//////// "The Most Happy."

~ William Shakespeare, Hamlet./////             ~ Anne Boleyn's motto.

August 11, 2011
4:43 pm
Avatar
Catalina
Scotland
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 98
Member Since:
July 17, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

This quote sums it up for me

 

'I was a queen, and you took away my crown; a wife, and you killed my husband; a mother, and you deprived me of my children. My blood alone remains: take it, but do not make me suffer long.'

'If honour were profitable, everybody would be honourable'  Thomas More

August 11, 2011
7:32 pm
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2337
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TheAwesome-B-Necklace said:

 But the logic of those people was probably distorted by the amount of blood they shed and the power they gained through the blood. 


Many moons ago I read a book about the French revolution, can't remember the title and amongst the things the book claimed was

 

1) they executed a group of young women newly arrived in Paris looking for work

 

2) they rounded up all men called by a fairly common name ( for example Yves Desjardin) and executed them rather than work out which was the one they wanted

 

3) whole streets were stripped of adult men and executed

 

there were more but I started to think BS by this stage,

It's always bunnies.

August 12, 2011
8:55 am
Avatar
Sharon
Binghamton, NY
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2115
Member Since:
February 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anyanka, my thoughts exactly! 

August 27, 2011
12:26 pm
Avatar
Anyelka
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
April 19, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anyanka said:

TheAwesome-B-Necklace said:

 But the logic of those people was probably distorted by the amount of blood they shed and the power they gained through the blood. 


Many moons ago I read a book about the French revolution, can’t remember the title and amongst the things the book claimed was

 

1) they executed a group of young women newly arrived in Paris looking for work

 

2) they rounded up all men called by a fairly common name ( for example Yves Desjardin) and executed them rather than work out which was the one they wanted

 

3) whole streets were stripped of adult men and executed

 

there were more but I started to think BS by this stage,

 

Wow I never heard of any of those! There's also a lot of fake stories about the French Revolution… Now, in truth there's even more terrible than this list…

What does “BS” mean?

 

August 27, 2011
2:24 pm
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2337
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

 BS=bullsh!t

It's always bunnies.

April 11, 2012
4:36 pm
Avatar
Bill1978
Australia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 476
Member Since:
April 9, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I finished watching Coppola’s Marie-Antoinette yesterday and I feel a new obsession starting. I quite enjoyed the movie as an introduction to this famous historical figure. Of who the only information I really knew about her was that she got her head chopped off and that Wednesday Addams named a headless doll in her honour.

Because of the movie I now aim to purchase Fraser’s biography and the two books on her children Marie-Therese and the son that became Louis XVII. I’m also interested in getting a biography on her husband Louis XVI, hopefully there is a decent one out there.

Strangely I have no interest in learning about the French monarchy beyond this couple. The movie really made me want to know more about this family. Louis XVI seems like such a reserved character and what I’ve read about him on Wikipedia, if he was a little more forceful his ideals may have helped avoid the French revoultion if it weren’t for his power hungry advisors/parlimentarians.

Marie-Antoinette really is the scapegoat of the revolution. Watching the movie I gather that the main cause of the revolution was due to the excesses of Louis XV and it is just unfortunate that he died before the revolution causing Louis XVI to inherit the mess. Unfortunately, since the French only like the French (major generalising sorry), the people couldn’t outwardly blame their French King so chose to use his foreign wife as the reason for their unhappiness.

I really liked how the movie portrayed the young couple early in their marriage and the difficulties marrying someone you don’t know can be. I also liked that they did eventually grow to love and support one another, so much that Marie chose to stay with her husband while all the royal blood fled. It is a pity that the movie only breifly touched on the revolution but I suppose Copolla’s plan was to showcase the character and not let the revolution overshadow Marie.

For me, the story of Marie-Antoinette shares a lot of similarities with Anne Boleyn. Mainly they were both wrongly executed or didn’t need to be executed at all.

I look forward to learning more about Marie when I get around to purchasing those books. I just need to save after splurging on books about The Stuarts

April 12, 2012
4:38 am
Avatar
juliane
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 115
Member Since:
March 28, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

They were perhaps the same person? The only thing I remember about Queen airhead is the dish of macarons! And the yards of silk, taffeta, satin and ribbons! She sure beat Anne when it came to extravagance! Shoes, stockings, wigs…. Parties, parties, parties!

April 12, 2012
12:17 pm
Avatar
Janet
ON Canada
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 153
Member Since:
February 24, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I really enjoyed the beginning of Coppolla’s movie showing Marie Antoinette leaving her home to go to France. I think it really did a good job of showing just how scary that would be for a young girl. The other thing I really liked about it is that it piqued my curiosity about MA and after reading through this thread I have a few new books to get.Smile

April 12, 2012
3:38 pm
Avatar
Bill1978
Australia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 476
Member Since:
April 9, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I definitely agree that the beginning was just so heart breaking. It’s like saying when someone marries someone from another country today you can’t have anything of your own. It was bad enough that she wasn’t allowed to have her own ladies-in-waiting who appeared to be friends but she wasn’t even allowed to take her little Austrian dog cause France has their own dogs. No wonder MA felt so alone in those early days of her marriage.

While the movie isn’t totally awesome, and I feel it was marketed at the MTV Crowd (god i hate that term) I personally think it may have achieved its goal of introducing MA to a whole new generation and presented her in a light where the new people wono’t instantly think of her as an airhead or self conceited lady who deserved the guillotine.

April 13, 2012
10:41 am
Avatar
juliane
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 115
Member Since:
March 28, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

She is the favourite queen of the French, and hasn’t yet been dethroned. 🙂

June 2, 2012
8:44 am
Avatar
Maggyann
Nottingham
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 238
Member Since:
May 7, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have been reading about Marie Antoinette (Fraser) and found it interesting (always looking for coincidences me) that she too was an executed Queen who was accused of incest (with her son). Any other parallels with Anne that strike you?

Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60

March 12, 2014
7:45 pm
Avatar
Joycie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
March 11, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

DuchessofBrittany said

“I read Antonia Fraser’s biography on Marie Antoinette and I got a lot of insight into her life, and I finished the book with a greater appreciation for her and the situation she found herself in. I hated the movie version of this book and could not finish it: too pop culturish for me. But, I digress.
I feel Marie Antoinette found herself in a France on the brink of social change. It must have been terribly hard to be a foreigner in the French Court, to be ignored by many courtiers, and seen as a shallow, vain girl. She lacked the education and formal training necessary to be the future Queen of France. One cannot forget that when she came to France, she was a mere 14 years old, suffering from homesickness (something I can appreciate).
Rather, she was the scapegoat for everything wrong with France. Her husband was so out of touch with French society that Marie Antoinette paid the ultimate price. Yes, she was a pretty and rich women, who was in a loveless marriage, and took lovers. Hell, the majority of women at the French court were the same. But, the Queen in the face of her people and she took the brunt of the revolution’s hatred for the royal family.”
I found Marie Antoinette to be a women misunderstood in her time and through history. I hope more people can come to learn about this tragic, yet courageous woman. Frankly, I find her quite delightful.”

I read the very same book and agree completly with what you say about Marie Antoinette. For all her greatness, Maria Theresa made a mistake in not educating her daughter enough to get an accurate perception of the needs of the people over whom she would reign and in proved fatal. She was not vain, but I think lacked the tact and social skills to suceed within the French court.
The French court was incredibly lavish and more out of touch than many other monarchies, and Marie Antoinette embraced this, but it was what she had been used to from birth. The poor of France decided they could not bare it any more (a justifiable decision) right when she was on the throne, but she could have been any other princess. While she could be blamed for not being able to accurately weight public opinion, on balance her husband is more to blame than her for the frightful state of France.
This is not to dismiss her historical importance- she was the public face of the royal family once she married and was the daughter of one of the greatest monarchs, and matriarchs in history. Her personality and taste, translated (sometimes wrongly) into self indulgence, made her well known and she went down in history.

April 26, 2014
5:39 pm
Avatar
Jasmine
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 161
Member Since:
December 30, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I feel sorry for both Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. Louis was well intentioned and suffered for the mistakes of his predecessors. Marie Antoinette, when she tried to make economies in her clothing, for example, going for a more simple style with plainer textiles, she was accused of not supporting the French silk industry. Both of them were in a no win situation.

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 214

Currently Online:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Anyanka: 2337

Boleyn: 2285

Sharon: 2115

Bella44: 933

DuchessofBrittany: 846

Mya Elise: 781

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 0

Members: 427592

Moderators: 0

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 13

Topics: 1712

Posts: 23076

Newest Members:

DennisDorie, vitushatault, oghmaniusVom, Urocchxae, Puimignog, Emma3456

Administrators: Claire: 959