Sorry to be a pain and bump this topic but i have been thinking about it quite a bit lately what with the ‘Succession to the Crown’ bill currently being debated in the houses of parliament! I do feel quite strongly that ane should be known as ‘Queen Jane’- but that neither Mary or Elizabeth should be considered usurpers! Especially since Mary had the support of the entire country behind her when she eventually ascended the throne! I haven’t read the Ives book- surely he would not be suggesting that Elizabeth is a usurper? Especially after we know what a great supporter of Anne’s he was It’s funny though isn’t it thinking that all the debating and fighting over the crown back then- over Margaret or Mary’s heirs succeeding in 1603 or the Boleyn vs Seymour battles during Henry’s reign- and now the current Royal family are descended from all of them- Margaret through the main line i believe- but Mary the Boleyn’s and the Seymour’s through the Queen Mother- and interestingly Princess Diana was also descended from Mary Boleyn i have read!! Sorry going sightly off topic now lol

KellyMarie said

Bill1978 said

On a slight tangent with this question. I know supposedly Guildford asked to be King and when told no had a hissy hit and ran crying to mama, but let’s assume Jane did last as Queen and ruled for many years. Would Guidford eventually be known in history as Prince Guildford or would he remain Lord? Is Prince a title that you can only be born into as oppose to marrying into.

I think he could have been made a Prince. look at the Queens husband, Prince Phillip. He wasn’t a Prince by birth right.

Although Jane railed against being Queen I think she was pretty astute in knowing what both her father and more so Dudley were up too. She knew that Dudley had got some plan in his head when he had used Eddy Seymour to destroy Tom Seymour and by doing so destroyed King Eddy’s favour, which in turn destroyed Eddy Seymour.
She probably hadn’t figured out what Dudley was fully up to until King Eddy died. He wanted all the power for himself, and his family.
If she had agreed in making Guildford King, she would have been more or less handing him England on velvet cushion. I sort of get the feeling that Old man Dudley would have kept Jane around long enough to produce a heir and a spare, then bumped her off and that way he could rule via Guildford and then in time perhaps via his grandson too.
Jane was no fool on that score so she made a very wise and calculated desicion in not giving Guildford or more to the point daddy in the law the crown. She knew that even if the people did in time come around to her being Queen they would never stomach the Dudley clan in the background having rights that they weren’t entitled too.

Prince Albert Vicky’s husband was granted the title of Prince consort. The people of England wouldn’t stomach the thought of him as being King Consort so Prince Consort was the next best thing, and worked out all round by and large.

KellyMarie said

Anyanka said

He was born His Highness Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark, though he renounced these titles when he married Elizabeth in 1947.

Oh really wow I didn’t know that, I thought it was a Duke for some reason, thanks.

Prince Philip’s back story is quite a fascinating one i must say- he was born into the Greek Royal family ( who where then deposed, reinstated and then deposed again), his upbringing is quite a sad one and in some way reminds me a bit of Elizabeth 1’s- it really is one of sadness when you consider if father abandoning them and his mother being sectioned with Schizophrenia and him then being looked after by one of his elder sisters! He’s lived all over the place really: France, Scotland, England etc with various relatives ( including Kensington Palace at one stage) his sister, and two of his nephews where then killed in an airplane crash and his guardian died the following year- i really find Philip quite a fascinating and interesting person. He was also a descendant of Queen Victoria through her daughter Princess Alice and therefore in the line of succession to the British throne. At the time of his marriage to the future Queen Elizabeth II he renounced his titles and place in the succession