Ghosts? | Historical Debates | Forum

Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Ghosts?
April 25, 2012
5:49 am
Avatar
Maggyann
Nottingham
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 239
Member Since:
May 7, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi all
went to bed really early last night (really early) so have been up and about from around 0400, I do have these times and have learned to just get on and have a normal day, I’ll be back in bed early again I expect. So to the post… whether I have been dreaming or what I don’t know but it is in my head so I thought I would ask on here.
Ghosts. We have things like Most Haunted and all those type programmes, there are mediums and what have you since around Victorian Times when they were deeply into it all but what about the period we are all so interested in? Are there any records of people claiming ghostly sightings? Would that have been a ‘sin’ or against their religious teachings? Did Henry VIII for instance catch a glimpse of Edward IV or something along those lines?
I don’t mean to ask do we/did they believe in ‘ghosts’ as such but wondered if there is anything to say they considered the possibility.
Even things like battles, we have people who claim to hear great battles in fields so do we have any Tudor era people making such claims?
Hope that made sense, sometimes I have things in my head and they wont go away. Confused

Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60

April 25, 2012
10:56 am
Avatar
Neil Kemp
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 447
Member Since:
April 11, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maggyann, your sleep timetable sounds pretty normal to me, I know how these things work sometimes.
To the matter in hand. Yes, the Tudors did believe in ghosts, but this belief seems to split down the religious beliefs of the time. Catholics were firm believers in ghosts and thought that if a person failed to make a good death then their restless soul would return and haunt the living. Numerous sightings of said restless souls were duly reported to ensure that people were either religious, or scared enough, to do the right thing prior to their own death. Protestants at this time did not believe in ghosts thinking this to be a doctrine of the Catholic belief of purgatory and thought ghostly sightings were both ungodly and a nonsense of Catholic propaganda. William Weston, a Jesuit, wrote about such things and the belief of restless souls (ghosts by any other name) in his book, “The Autobiography Of An Elizabethan”.

April 25, 2012
11:24 am
Avatar
Maggyann
Nottingham
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 239
Member Since:
May 7, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thank you for that Neil, it has been bugging at me since I got up this morning. So Catholics would have believed in restless spirits which makes sense as they all (the ones being executed) made good deaths as it were so probably to be sure they did not come back and trouble their surviving family etc as much as to keep on the right side of the King who was having them killed? I wonder if this has anything to do with buying masses for the dead and all that, (sorry I am not really up on religious practices for each group) so people would buy masses for the dead to keep them dead as well as get them to heaven?
It has just got me thinking really. We all have our own ‘things’ reading, walking, painting whatever and some people are ‘into’ ghosts and hauntings I just wonder if back then they had the same interest or at least some of them. Can you imagine a Tudor based ‘most haunted’ night with them prowling about in some musty old ruin calling out ‘is anybody there’, with their skirts rustling and codpeices getting caught on brambles or whatever.
I suppose actually it would be interesting to know if they had ‘hobbies’ as such. Hunting and all that had a practical purpose i.e eating so what did they do on their days off I wonder? Maybe life was just too busy to kick off the shoes and do some yoga or go out looking for bargains round a pony and cart boot sale…
Things we take for granted really we work, eat, sleep but have our own times too for all those things we want to do.
Getting muddled up now but anyway I think it would be great to find someone back then was interested in the ghostie side of life (or death).

Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60

April 25, 2012
5:06 pm
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 782
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh I hate ghosts, I freak myself out real good whenever I watch ghost movies or Tv shows but I would absolutely loooove to catch a glimpse of one especially if it were Anne or someone from the Tudor era.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

April 25, 2012
5:56 pm
Avatar
Neil Kemp
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 447
Member Since:
April 11, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maggyann, what you could do for recreation depended if you were rich or poor (no change there then!), with the court set doing pretty much anything that took their fancy. The ordinary citizen had a tougher time of it with most of their days being taken up with hard manual labour. Just in case they were having too much fun when they weren’t working in 1512 Henry banned the ordinary person from playing real tennis, cards, bowls, dice and skittles, but, in an act of great charity, these laws were relaxed at Christmas (good old Henry!). As Henry wanted his subjects fit for military duty he also banned football in 1540. This was not the game we now know as football but was very rough and caused many injuries and even deaths. Things to ban were now in short supply but good old Henry still came up with another pastime to ban. In 1542 the game of shuffleboard (shove half-penny) was banned. The general view was that the working class should either spend all their time working or else recovering from their labours at home, thus making them easier to control (games allowed people to meet and groups could be dangerous, also gambling on these games could lead to civil unrest – well, that’s how Henry saw it anyway). There were no rules or regulations stopping the rich from taking part in what they saw as sport or in doing pretty much as they pleased (and things have changed in 500 years?). Bear-gardens proved popular in Elizabeth’s time. This consisted of an arena which was surrounded by a public gallery (the poor standing, the rich sitting) where all manner of wonderful humane “sport” took place, such as blinded bears being whipped, donkeys being attacked by groups of dogs, general bear-baiting and cock fighting. Given that such activities were considered normal and not cruel during this period one can see that the actions of some people during these times also have to be taken into context. What we see as inhumane and cruel was just a part of life back in Tudor times (e.g., executions, burnings, torture, etc) and we have to try and judge their actions against the values of the time, not with our 21st century viewpoint. Having said that I don’t think Henry comes out well in any context!Wink

April 25, 2012
8:39 pm
Avatar
Boleyn
Kent.
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2285
Member Since:
January 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

31st October as you know is called Halloween, this is a time when people who were deeply religious, believed that those people who died unshriven, etc, walked the earth looking for a body to inhabit or perhaps to wreak vengence on those who had caused their death. Nuns and Monks alike spent the whole day and the night in prayer hoping that the good Lord would pity those lost souls and lead them home.
Halloween was also a time where people believes that Witches, Devil’s etc also roamed abroad, and again prayer kept these supposed creatures at bay.
The Pagan festival Samain is celebrated on the 31st October and this is where the rubbish about witches and devils etc came from. Samain has got nothing to do with anything evil at all. It is a celebratory time for Pagans to welcome the Holly King and to give thanks to Mother Earth for the bounty she has bestowed upon us again for the year. It is also a time for Mother Earth to go and have a much earned rest ready for the following year, when she will return and bring new life with her.
The 1st November is called All Souls day and again this day was spent giving thanks in prayer for giving people a peaceful and trouble free night, and to give thanks to God for all those who have now gone home to sleep with God in peace.
This was also the day that Stinky found out that KH was cuckolding him, small wonder he went off the deep end, as he believed that K.H was completely an honest and true wife to him…

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 70

Currently Online:
12 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Anyanka: 2345

Boleyn: 2285

Sharon: 2115

Bella44: 934

DuchessofBrittany: 847

Mya Elise: 782

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 0

Members: 426041

Moderators: 0

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 13

Topics: 1679

Posts: 23600

Newest Members:

franklingo18, HorinadR, estherqw4, enriquebo2, Delaquand, esperanzamt3

Administrators: Claire: 998