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Wonder how he feels about it all now?
January 16, 2014
8:36 pm
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TudorFan
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I wonder how furious he is, wherever he is, that despite his strenuous efforts, his Tudor dynasty lasted only one more generation.

I bet he’s spitting feathers! And giving Wolsey and Cromwell et al a right royal rollocking!

January 16, 2014
9:07 pm
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Bob the Builder
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assuming that a pile of bones has feelings, i imagine he feels vindicted…

his motivation for chopping and changing wives, apart from ego, was sons – and lots of them – to continue the dynasty. he wanted an heir, and a spare, and another spare, and ideally another spare. if they could have heirs of their own before he kicked the bucket that would be great.

the end of the dynasty after just one generation after his death is proof that one son and a couple of daughters just wasn’t enough to cut the mustard of dynastic survival in the 16th century.

January 16, 2014
10:58 pm
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TudorFan
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Yes, I see what you mean. But he must be a tad annoyed that it didn’t work out and all that chopping and changing had little effect. I guess he would feel vindicated, as he was always right … wasn’t he, lol!

January 17, 2014
12:18 am
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Anyanka
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Henry wouldn’t have taken the blame on his shoulders or soul. Seymour and Dudley to blame for Edward’s death, Mary for marrying Philip and Elizabeth for ….not marrying.

Then Dudley again for Jane, Seymour jr for Katherine Grey and Mary…well–some-one!

And I’ved run out of ideas for Eleanor Brandon and the whole Stuart…unless it’s back to Seymour for not grabbing Mary of scotland and forcing her to wed Ed!

It's always bunnies.

January 17, 2014
2:14 am
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Always_the_Same
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honestly whether he succeeded or not no matter, the fact is that the Tudor dynasty is the most famous and commented of the history, all the achievements of Plantagenet before them were almost forgotten, except by historians and us passionate about history (I wish there were more movies about the first kings of england), even my grandmother with almost no education know who was Henry VIII, there was already so many movies, books and TV shows about them that the market is saturated! is why there are so many people fascinated by this period and these kings? they not only made ​​history as they are part of the popular imagination like no other dynasty. is ironic, but I think he has reached his goal, may not have lasted so long, but it is the best known.

January 17, 2014
8:57 am
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Very true, good point!

January 17, 2014
9:01 am
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Bob the Builder
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Always_the_Same said

honestly whether he succeeded or not no matter, the fact is that the Tudor dynasty is the most famous and commented of the history, all the achievements of Plantagenet before them were almost forgotten, except by historians and us passionate about history (I wish there were more movies about the first kings of england), even my grandmother with almost no education know who was Henry VIII…

sadly you’re correct – the Norman and Plantaganet dynasty ruled for 400 years, created our legal system, owned more of France than the French King, created(ish) our parliamentary system and ended the concept of absolute monarchy, but a fat ginger who smelt like a dead dog and tore down some of our greatest and most historically important architecture is more famous.

dispair, utter dispair…

January 17, 2014
9:10 am
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Don’t despair, Bob. If it hadn’t happened, we wouldn’t be here now discussing it!

January 17, 2014
9:31 am
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Bob the Builder
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TudorFan said

Don’t despair, Bob. If it hadn’t happened, we wouldn’t be here now discussing it!

true, but its a pretty poor exchange…

January 17, 2014
11:53 am
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Always_the_Same
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personally I think the story before the tudor is overly romanticized , if we analyze each historic period of more objectively , there were wars and dynastic disputes from the beginning , not only in England as in France , or other less known great nation , although I am more specifically fascinated with English history does not mean that I believe in ” kings ” or golden period , although my biased for Elizabeth I ( as the most famous queen of the Tudor period, and best known female monarch ) , I’m sure that people the British Isles had their culture destroyed over and over by the Romans , Saxons and finally the Normans , as well as culture in America was destroyed by the conquistadors and later rebuilt in other. Sorry I’m straying from the topic ! But like I said if I could , or in a perfect world we would have more movies about each period , I’d love a movie or series about Edward III , or over other periods . But the Tudor period is the most fascinating , good or bad

January 17, 2014
3:21 pm
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Boleyn
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I agree Always the same. The Tulip Period is facinating, but one has to ask why?
Is it because of H8 madness (loosely worded) in marrying 6 wives, chopping 2 of them up, along with loads of other people? His destruction of the religious houses? Sicking two fingers up and telling the Pope to get stuffed? Or his poncing about France in a vain attempt at being a soldier?
No doubt he is iconic that’s for sure just for the facts above, but when push comes to shove he didn’t really acheive much. He got his immortality alright, but he paid a terrible price for it. 117 years and 5 monarchs that was all the Tulip period lived for, not long really when you consider that the Normans, were around for more than that and the Plantangenet line were around for a looooong time.
Even the Stuart line of kings were longer than that and their line started back in 1316 with Margery Bruce, and ended in 1714. If you think about this is quite ironic, that James V was allegely suppose to have said when told of Mary QofS birth. “Scotland came with a lass it will go with lass” he was right. Although whether he actually said it is open to speculation.
Henry Tulip winning Bosworth against the odds I guess is something amazing, if he had lost he would have been consigned to the history books as yet another Welsh Milksop who had dreams of granduer and was quickly put in his place (ie six feet under). I doubt anyone would be intrested in wanting to find his bones either.
Little King Eddy(6) didn’t really have a chance to prove his worth, would he have made a good or bad King? he might have done, but we will never know.
Mary well she was a disaster from start to finish, she refused to except change, she wanted to recapture the days of her childhood, but that was never going to happen, no matter how many people she burned or beheaded. The England she had grown up with up until her father had changed it was dead and buried. She was a dreamer who lived in the past, and in the end it was her past or rather her perception of what she wanted for England, that destroyed her and destroyed the people’s love and trust of her. I’ve even read somewhere that Philip had tried to stop her from burning people willy nilly, and that killing Cramner would be a mistake. I believe he told her “Cranmer is an old man let him live out his days in prison” but she wanted to revenge herself against him.
Elizabeth the greatest Monarch Tulip England knew. Yes she was I agree, but she was also the most infruating too, she often procastinated on even the most simple matters, for months sometimes, but that doesn’t mean she was a bad ruler. Just cautious and sometimes too cautious.
Her only blot is Mary QofS death but even through I believe she regretted Mary’s death for the her life, she knew that there could be no peace within the realm whilst Mary was in it. Elizabeth managed to adhere the people to her because of her neutral steer the middle line policies, and as I said at times she could be quite infruating because of them too. The people also knew when the chips were down Elizabeth would go all out to protect her people from harm. The Spanish armada was one such time when she proved just how much of a lion’s cub she really was.
Was her decision not to marry the right one? is what you really have to look at. If she had married and had a child, the chances of still having a Tulip monarch (descended from H8) would at least still be possible. Yes our Queen Lizzy has Tulip blood but it is heavily watered down, now.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

January 17, 2014
7:57 pm
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Bob the Builder
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Boleyn said
…Her only blot is Mary QofS death but even through I believe she regretted Mary’s death for the her life, she knew that there could be no peace within the realm whilst Mary was in it…

i don’t consider it a blot – because of Mary QoS’s involvement with various plotters/idiot schemes to put herself on the throne her execution is far less ‘bad’ than the murder of Henry VI under Edward IV or the murder of Richard II under Henry IV, yet neither of those monarchs reputations are unduly sullied by those deaths. everyone – or pretty much everyone – accepts them as the unfortunate, perhaps regretable, but neccessary consequences of the reality that any country that has ‘ex-Kings’, or pretenders to the throne is never going to be free of the threat of insurection and civil war.

had Mary quietly accepted exile in England and refused to be involved in plots against Elizabeth she would have survived – a remarkable act of charity on Elizabeths part, knowing as she did the history of dynastic conflict – but she could not help herself, she made war on the Queen ( not very effective war, but war none the less..), and she paid the price that many of her ancestors paid for rebelling against the monarch.

stupidity and arrogance is a spectacularly dangerous combination of attributes for the holder, and she had them in spades.

January 17, 2014
8:49 pm
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Boleyn
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I agree Bob Mary brought about her own death. If she had worked with Elizabeth when she first came back to Scotland instead of blustering and demanding that Elizabeth give her what she felt was hers (Ie England and the Throne) things may have been very different for her. But I still feel that Elizabeth did regret sending her to her death, even through Mary’s behaviour certainly warranted it. When all was said and done I think Elizabeth knew deep down that Mary had to die for the good of England.
To be honest all the Stuart rulers IMO had a screw loose, they were always at loggerheads with their councils over one thing and another and all of them ended up getting killed in one way or another. Blown up, stabbed, possibly poisoned or in Mary’s case chopped up.
Mary was a very vain self centred pampered spoilt brat IMO. Elizabeth had her vanities and liked to be centre stage and made love to (loosely worded) by her courtiers, but she also knew how to rule as well as reign if that makes sence.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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