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What were Henry's good points?
June 23, 2011
7:37 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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Or maybe just afraid to let him know he wasn't popular anymore! After all, who would be honest with a tyrant who'll kill you if he doesn't like what you say (and you're pretty sure he won't like it)?

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               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

June 24, 2011
4:54 am
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DuchessofBrittany
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I am not sure if this is the best place for this thread, but I believe it does pertain to the question of Henry's personality, his choice of compantions, and what that says about him.

I wonder what you all think about the following statement:

“Yet for all the susceptibilities of both the man and his office, Henry had neither sycophants nor toadies as companions on the hunt or servants in the privy chamber, and generally he was told the truth no matter how unpleasant it might be” (Baldwin-Smith, 2010, p. 126).

This is from Baldwin-Smith's bio Catherine Howard. I find it a broad sweep to assume everyone close to Henry told the truth all the time, or am I reading the sentence wrong. I would argue that most of Henry's companions were yes men, but perhaps I am missing the intent of Baldwin-Smith's point.

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

June 24, 2011
11:44 am
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SG
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Maybe Baldwin-Smith makes the assumption that Henry's closest companions would have been honest with him at all times, or almost all the time at least?  It certainly reads that way to me.  I don't think that would have been the case though.  Maybe they didn't flatter him excessively, but I doubt they would have dared be completely honest.  And I would expect that they were 'yes' men.  Most people in power surround themselves with 'yes' men don't they?

June 24, 2011
11:44 am
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Anne fan
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Early in his reign that may possibly have been true. Pastime with good company, after all. But after 1535/6 I doubt it. Once Henry executed More and Anne I suspect there were very few people who would be willing to tell him the truth and certainly no one by the time of Catherine Howard. Of course, it may be that Baldwin-Smith is referring to things like foreign policy, etc?

June 24, 2011
11:46 am
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Anne fan
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SG said:

Maybe Baldwin-Smith makes the assumption that Henry's closest companions would have been honest with him at all times, or almost all the time at least?  It certainly reads that way to me.  I don't think that would have been the case though.  Maybe they didn't flatter him excessively, but I doubt they would have dared be completely honest.  And I would expect that they were 'yes' men.  Most people in power surround themselves with 'yes' men don't they?


Sorry – was writing my comment as you wrote yours!

August 14, 2011
2:14 am
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Louise
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Apparently it has recently come to light that Henry was a secret songwriter of some talent. In fact he wrote the original version of 'Favorite Things', which was later used in 'The Sound of Music', although the words were changed. The original wording has recently come to light:-

Iron clamps on noses and racked till they dribble,
Bright copper kettles boiling cooks till they shrivel.
Wild geese that fly till they're baked in a kiln.
These are a few of my fav-or-ite things.

When the wife moans. When my mood turns.
When I'm feeling sad.
I kill off a few of my fav-or-ite friends,
AND THEN I DON'T FEEEEL SOOO BAAAAD. 

  

August 14, 2011
4:30 pm
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Anne fan
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Louise said:

Apparently it has recently come to light that Henry was a secret songwriter of some talent. In fact he wrote the original version of 'Favorite Things', which was later used in 'The Sound of Music', although the words were changed. The original wording has recently come to light:-

Iron clamps on noses and racked till they dribble,
Bright copper kettles boiling cooks till they shrivel.
Wild geese that fly till they're baked in a kiln.
These are a few of my fav-or-ite things.

When the wife moans. When my mood turns.
When I'm feeling sad.
I kill off a few of my fav-or-ite friends,
AND THEN I DON'T FEEEEL SOOO BAAAAD. 

  


Lol! I feel Henry VIII the Musical coming on!

August 14, 2011
7:08 pm
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Anyanka
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And now you must share Anne Fan….

It's always bunnies.

August 15, 2011
12:00 pm
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Sharon
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DuchessofBrittany said:

I am not sure if this is the best place for this thread, but I believe it does pertain to the question of Henry's personality, his choice of compantions, and what that says about him.

I wonder what you all think about the following statement:

“Yet for all the susceptibilities of both the man and his office, Henry had neither sycophants nor toadies as companions on the hunt or servants in the privy chamber, and generally he was told the truth no matter how unpleasant it might be” (Baldwin-Smith, 2010, p. 126).

This is from Baldwin-Smith's bio Catherine Howard. I find it a broad sweep to assume everyone close to Henry told the truth all the time, or am I reading the sentence wrong. I would argue that most of Henry's companions were yes men, but perhaps I am missing the intent of Baldwin-Smith's point.


Duchess, maybe he is referring to the CH affair?  Although Cramner wrote the note telling him something was wrong…I can't remember if he signed the note or not….the council told him about the findings of their investigation, correct?  That's when Henry broke down in front of them. 

Otherwise Henry's court seemed to be made up of so many different factions, and any one of those factions, at any given point, would be more than willing to tell Henry the truth, especially if it aided their cause. At some point or other there was always someone who would have been willing to take on Henry's wrath and tell him what no one else would dare. I don't think they did it for anything other than their own gain.

August 15, 2011
12:50 pm
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Louise
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I don't actually agree with Baldwin-Smith and I don't understand what inspired him to make that comment. I think Henry was told exactly what he wanted to hear, particularly in his later reign. I don't think if he had still loved Anne and was still loyal to her he would have passively listened to her alleged offences. He listened because he was keen to hear, and his courtiers made sure he heard what he wanted to hear. Wasn't it Thomas More who complained that Henry was being told what he could do, rather than what he should do?

I think Cranmer was very brave in bringing Catherine's alleged affair to Henry, but really he had no choice in the matter once the allegation reached his ears. Had he not have told Henry it could have eventually been him as well as Lady Rochford on the scaffold. Dealing with Henry must have been like playing with a particularly temperamental grizzly bear.

August 15, 2011
6:59 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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Good analogy, Louise!

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               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

August 15, 2011
7:47 pm
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Anyanka
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Louise said:

 

I think Cranmer was very brave in bringing Catherine's alleged affair to Henry, but really he had no choice in the matter once the allegation reached his ears. Had he not have told Henry it could have eventually been him as well as Lady Rochford on the scaffold. Dealing with Henry must have been like playing with a particularly temperamental grizzly bear.


Misprison of treason

To tell or not to tell..Cramner was above all dedicated to save his own life especially when  it was to be considered against a member of an opposing faction at court.

It's always bunnies.

August 16, 2011
11:57 am
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Sharon
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Henry had good points?  Maybe in his youth. He was a good athlete. He married the damsel in distress.  He was a well-educated renaissance prince. He brought art and culture to England. He wanted to make England a player on the world stage and he accomplished that. He was beloved by his people. (albeit they didn't know him)  And then it starts to go downhill.

August 27, 2011
11:49 am
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Milady12
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He died eventually? Yeah, that's all I got.

He was a Bloody Nutter! 

August 28, 2011
12:14 am
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Impish_Impulse
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Milady12 said:

He died eventually? Yeah, that’s all I got.

He was a Bloody Nutter! 

 

Stop, you're killing me! That's great!

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               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

April 2, 2012
8:10 am
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wreckmasterjay said

I suppose anyone on an Anne Boleyn forum would probably say “none” but its just a thought. Wink

I agree — but there was one good thing: the day the old barf died! And I’ll bet the old boy is not remembered near as much as Anne! Wink

April 2, 2012
8:56 am
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Mya Elise
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Good points of Henry VIII? Hmmm, let me think…

He fathered a great Queen, Elizabeth.
From what I hear he probably was a quite the charmer.
He was good at jousting & tennis.
He might of been attractive in his younger years.
He could tell a good joke.
He could write music….
What else? Oh! He was an excellent liar. Wink

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

April 2, 2012
9:20 am
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juliane
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Is he remembered because of Anne? What a nasty surprise for poor Henry, that spoilt brat.
Good points. Let me see.
Why can’t I come up with any?
Through Anne’s eyes… The fact that he was a ‘doer’ and not a ‘talker’, and certainly no wimp…. A man of purpose, a person who knew what he wanted and got it… So different from gentle Henry Percy, little chick that he was.

April 2, 2012
9:26 am
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Mya Elise
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LOL Juliane, you crack me up, so glad you joined the forum.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

April 2, 2012
11:46 am
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juliane
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I do love reading your posts too. You give me things to think about. Smile

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