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Is Henry VIII in Hell?
June 25, 2011
8:29 am
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E
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Are you serious?!Laugh  I don't assume that at all! Or do you mean that Henry was assuming- in which case I completely agree with you! It was a bit ridiculous back then, until Elizabeth having to believe (if in England) what you were told by your government- either Catholic/Protestant/Church of England (Henry) or Protestant (Edward) or Catholic (Mary) or Not making windows in men's souls…

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

June 30, 2011
5:38 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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It was your phrasing that created the dichotomy of being either Catholic or heretic, and when I registered my objection, you mocked my being offended, so I'm not sure why I should have to give you the benefit of the doubt regarding your intent.

And now I'm done, so whale away at me as you please. I won't respond again.

                        survivor ribbon                             

               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

July 1, 2011
8:59 am
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Wow. What a strange reaction. I haven'tmocked you, I thought you were genuinely joking when you said you were offended. I was surprised and a little disappointed to find that you were not. The phrasing was suitable to the context- as is my phrasing now: You are the one whaling. If you have a problem with the phraseology of Henry VIII, take it up with Henry VIII- and it doesn't bother me at all if you don't respond.

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

July 1, 2011
10:38 am
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Neil Kemp
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Please good people, this is an adult forum for historical debate, where we are sometimes going to disagree on points of history and other details, but we should always remain respectful of other peoples opinions and beliefs. We can all make a comment, albeit with no intention of causing offence, that someone can object to, because of a deeply held and sincere belief. Once this fact has been made known I think an apology is in order. However unintentional, or misplaced, we may think the complaint is, we should apologise, because, as in this case, a comment has caused offence. A simple sorry would have sufficed, we do not add to the perceived insult by making light of it, or indeed mocking a forum member by questioning their need for an apology. I do not want to sound sanctimonious, or indeed now be the target of unwelcome comments by making this stand, but I felt I had to say something when I can see things that are just plain out of order.

We are, I like to think, a happy band of like minded people, who share a common interest. Please, let's not spoil this great forum by getting into unwelcome personal insults. I know this wasn't my place to get involved, but when something is wrong, it's wrong and I felt I could stand by no longer.

July 1, 2011
9:59 pm
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Neil, I am genuinely bewildered.

I will not apologize for speaking in context to the era we were discussing as my words are a reflection of the beliefs of the time and not my own opinion.

I have tried to be pleasant to II in the past, commenting on her great signature and name, only to be ignored. I have in no way set out to offend her nor ever have and genuinely thought she was joking. I had no idea until her second last post she was not. I had written “I didn't mean to offend anyone” and “I don't assume that at all” I have gone on to express these were just the beliefs of the time and not my own opinion.

II has deliberately gone on the offensive for reasons of her own. I have certainly not mocked her. I have not ment to offend anyone.

I feel I have been attacked, and realise this is due to a miscommunication common when people cannot speak face to face. I am not asking for an apology and I am not deliberately being offended.

If II wishes to be offended by my reflection of the beliefs of Henry VIII that has nothing to do with me and every thing to do with her.

I am amazed that what I thought was a friendly joke has turned so nasty and is now involving other members of the forum.

I hope Neil that you would not have the impression of me as someone who would attack another person. I have simply stood up for myself whilst under attack.

I will add once again my complete amazement and bewilderment.

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

July 2, 2011
1:54 am
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Neil Kemp
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E, I thank you for your reply and your comments are duly noted.

I believe this issue has been allowed to go too far and should now be put to bed, so to speak. However much you believed you were in the right, a simple sorry would have resolved the issue and avoided any unpleasantness. I'm sorry if this sounds judgemental, it just seemed (from an outside perspective) the obvious and most diplomatic solution to resolve an issue that quickly got out of hand.

I made my comment in order to try and resolve things, not to drag this matter on further and as such therefore, whatever your views as to the wronged party in this matter, I think we should now close this thread, move on and get back to doing what this forum does best. I.E. discussing historical matters in a calm, logical and informed manner, to the greater knowledge and enjoyment of all of us on this great forum.

August 23, 2011
8:19 am
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Elliemarianna
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I don't think so. I don't believe in hell, we all make mistakes, its part of learning. If there wasn't evil in the world, we wouldn't know how to be good. Evil serves it's purpose. Sin is only sin if you believe it is.

"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.

August 27, 2011
12:05 pm
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Milady12
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YES!!!! GOD WILLING THAT COLD, BLOODLESS, SOULESS MONSTER IS BURNING IN HELL FOR ALL OF ETERNITY! 

It doesn't matter what religion you are or what religion you were. It didn't matter if you were man, woman or child, learned or feeble minded. If you did not agree with him on THAT day, whatever day that may be…he had you tortured and/or killed. Even if he just changed his mind at the drop of a hat. If you didn't do an about face with him…Immediately…you were dead. Period. End of story. No explanations. No chance to clear yourself. You were done. How does he deserve better? I am a Catholic, HOWEVER, I do not believe in disrespecting another persons religion. To each his own. I have a strong faith in God, Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary. It brings me personal comfort. However, I do not believe in ALL doctrine of the catholic faith, as it is man-made, so as all things man made it is best guess and often times self-serving. I believe that Jesus is merciful, I believe the Mary is full of Grace AND I believe in the WRATH of God and that it comes down like Thunder on those who deserve it. No last minute repentance out of fear is going to save you.

Kimberly


April 4, 2012
11:04 am
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juliane
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Henry is neither in heaven nor hell…he’s on earth working it out. Lol

April 4, 2012
1:36 pm
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Elliemarianna
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juliane said

Henry is neither in heaven nor hell…he’s on earth working it out. Lol

I agree with you on that one!

"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.

April 4, 2012
8:06 pm
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Mya Elise
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I’m not religious, i’ve only been in a church a few times – once when my great grandmother died and some other times for school concerts. But my mother was born into a Catholic family so if that means anything…?

Anyways If there is a hell then I don’t see why Henry wouldn’t be there cause he killed alot of innocent people as did Mary and every other King or Queen. I don’t agree with people being killed just because they have different beliefs or religious views, like in the Holocaust when millions of Jewish people were tortured and killed because one man decided to blame their problems on them which led to everyone hating them. I believe certain people should die if they have done things like murder, or rape, or abuse and especially children abuse. But in the 16th century things were different and they didn’t think it was wrong so I can’t really judge or be angry. I’m not sure if Henry should go to hell but I do hope he never finds happiness where ever he is. That, he doesn’t deserve.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

January 30, 2013
7:30 pm
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Alison
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If there is a hell then yes he’s there.

June 7, 2013
12:10 pm
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fred page
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If there is a hell then Henry will be keeping good company.
Where to start is the question. From William the bastard to the Nazi loving Hitler admiring playboy Edward VIII.
Since 1066 when one bunch of Scandanavian ganger thugs, defeated another bunch of Scandanavian ganger thugs, and fought over who should rule and rape our country. The victor proceeding to carve up our lands and distribute them to his buddy’s, thus forming the basis of our aristocracy, a legacy which we are still paying for today.
I can’t think of one whom I would consider to be humane. Including the revered ‘Virgin Queen’ who left her brave sailors at sea, even after the armada had been despatched north and represented no danger to our shores. Over half died of starvation and disease but then of course any serviceman that did not return meant she didn’t have to pay them.
Why oh why do we hold this bunch of European inbreads in such esteem? To me as a republican it is a mystery.
Henry had over 60,000 people executed during his reign of terror. God alone only knows how many men died in battle fighting for what? Power? Money? From Hastings, Agincourt, Poitiers, Crecy and a thousand other slaughterhouses across Europe, even up to WW1 when a family feud between Queen Victorias grandchildren when a King, a Kaiser, an Emporer and a Tsar fought to establish who would rape and pillage Africa and Asia.
I’ll tell you this, IF there is a hell then ‘Old Nick’ will have made a pretty penny melting down the crowns and coronets of this lot.

June 10, 2013
7:27 pm
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Louise
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I don’t really believe in the concept of Heaven and Hell, but there are people who believe this is Hell, or rather that we live in a Hell of our own making. When I look at the world I sometimes have some sympathy with the theory.

June 10, 2013
9:13 pm
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Boleyn
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Didn’t Henry abolish pergatory and Hell when he made himself head of the Church of England? Actually I rephrase that he became hell so yes he is burning in his own fat and flatulance, whilst wallowing in his own crapulance at the same time.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

June 11, 2013
7:11 am
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Kaz
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Hmmm if King Henry VIII made himself Supreme Head of the Church, he would have known what the 7 deadly sins of the Christian faith are: Lust (he went for our Queen Anne to begin with, plus all the women he had as mistresses), Gluttony (I hear his court would always show off with great feasts and hardly eat any veggies or fruit because nature’s foods were seen for the poor!), Greed (he and King Francis kept fighting about who was better/had more of what), Sloth (maybe when his leg was bad, but I won’t say he was lazy), Wrath (OK so he likes bullying or killing people when he doesn’t get his way), Envy (he was envious of King Francis, even of his mistress Mary Boleyn too!), Pride (we are talking about King Henry here, LOL – he IS the definition of pride). So in a Christian sense, just by going through the 7 deadly sins list, it doesn’t look too good for Henry to be accepted into Heaven with a record like that…but yes, of course it is up to God to judge us….but I also agree that if at the hour of his death King Henry truly was sorry for all he had done and repented, then he has the right to ask for God’s forgiveness. Anyways, I am still on Anne and George Boleyn’s side – they were innocent victims of Henry’s sick games….I don’t see Henry any different to a modern day wife-killer – he should have gone to jail but because he was the ultimate authority, people had to keep quiet. PS I get sooo peed off at King Henry’s big clock at Hampton Court (just by looking at pics on the internet – I hear this clock is huge), because it is of the star-signs….once again I’m seeing a lot of hypocrisy from King Henry regarding his faith – if he was once again the Supreme Head of the Church, what is he doing with a clock that shows astrology – which the Bible says is an abomination to God – ?????? Some things just don’t make sense.

-"Trust in those who offer you service, and in the end my maidens, you will find yourselves in the ranks of those who have been deceived" - Archduchess Margaret of Austria.

October 7, 2013
3:19 pm
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Mad_Twinkie
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I don’t believe in hell, but I do believe there is a place after we die where we can review our life without all the stupid reasons we make up to justify bad actions. I like to believe at some point he said “Man, I was such a douche!!! What was I thinking?”

October 7, 2013
5:15 pm
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Boleyn
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I think that Henry regretted a lot of things he did in his life, and certainly his concious plagued him towards the end of his life. I believe he asked for prayers to be said for all eternity etc to save his soul from pergatory.
Heaven and Hell back then were tangable and as real to them as sliced bread is to us now.
So putting the Hell aspect on things back then Yes Henry would be in hell, in modern day terms No Henry is just a pile of bones in a box in Westminster Abbey.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

October 26, 2013
7:33 am
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annacarina1
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I believe that Henry VIII is probably in Hell. He did a lot of terrible things in his life– he beheaded his best friend Thomas More, he beheaded two of his wives for no reason except that he wanted them dead. He treated his wives terribly and cast them aside when he tired of them. He killed a lot of people who did not deserve to die. Henry may have felt sorry for what he did, but did he do penance for it (or at least asked for forgiveness from God)? I think not.

This brought to mind another thought: was what Henry did truly evil? I always thought that truly evil people (like Hitler) went to Hell when they died, so what about people who weren’t as evil but still made bad choices? Does Henry truly deserve to go to Hell? And if he is not in Hell, where did he go?

October 26, 2013
8:27 am
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Boleyn
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It is allegded that the last thing he said before Cramner was called to his side was “Monks, Monks.” Of course when Cramner came he was beyond all speech, and just squeezed Cramner hand in answer to Cramner’s question. If it’s true about the “Monks Monks” bit it does make me wonder about what was going through his mind? (well it was that tiny it was probably fresh air)

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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