Henry's marriage propsects 1509 | Henry VIII | Forum

Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Henry's marriage propsects 1509
March 21, 2012
11:45 am
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2337
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

when Henry ascended to the throne on 21st April 1509, Henry swiftly married Catherine of Aragon. There doesn’t seem to hvae been any other brides offered to the English court.

Were there any other suitable ladies in Europe or England? Or did the speed of both H7’s death and H8’s marriage take the other rulers and their ambassadors by surprise?

It's always bunnies.

March 21, 2012
1:59 pm
Avatar
Boleyn
Kent.
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2285
Member Since:
January 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anyanka said

when Henry ascended to the throne on 21st April 1509, Henry swiftly married Catherine of Aragon. There doesn’t seem to hvae been any other brides offered to the English court.

Were there any other suitable ladies in Europe or England? Or did the speed of both H7’s death and H8’s marriage take the other rulers and their ambassadors by surprise?

Actually Anyanka, Henry 7th death was kept secret for 4 days from all but his very close advisors, Henry knew I think, and he was said that it was his father’s wish that he married KOA, this may or may not have been true, but i rather think Henry liked KOA and erhaps felt it only right he should marry her. He wanted to be thought of a the hero rescuing Rapunzel if you like from the tower of povety. There were other princesses available but I rather think they were too young to be considered or maybe even too far away, and bear in mind there were others who felt that they had more right to the throne than as they called Henry 7th The Tudor Upstart dynasty, so I rather think time was of the essence get a son in the royal cradle as quick as possible and with KOA being at hand it seemed the obvisious choice. The Duke of Buckingham was known to have ambitions and lost his head over them too. I also think that relations with France were none to splendid at the time, and it may well have been that France could have made a suggestion to Ferdinand look if you can get KOA out of England and married to Francis, we can unite against England etc. So by Henry marrying KOA France was basically cut off from attacting England as Spain and England would have course decimated any French army that would try any rough stuff with England. I believe Henry was offered a princess called Isabella at one point but I’ll be dashed if I can remember from where.. It may have even been Burgundy? Don’t quote me.

I think people knew Henry 7th was none too well, but I don’t believe his death came as too much of a surprize. It may be of interest, but when Elizabeth of York died. Henry 7th put forward a proposal via the Spanish Ambassador, the he himself would marry KOA and find another bride for his son. It didn’t go down very well as you can imagine, in fact I rather think Ferdinand was very disgrunted..

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 21, 2012
6:36 pm
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yeah, Henry got a kick out of marrying Katherine, ‘rescuing’ her out of her bad situation. Probably made him feel heroic and manly, BIG boost to any man’s ego. But sometimes I wonder whether Katherine would of been better off if Henry hadn’t of married her? Or worse off? Seriously, what would of happend to Katherine if Henry hadn’t married her?

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

March 22, 2012
9:04 am
Avatar
Boleyn
Kent.
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2285
Member Since:
January 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Mya Elise said

Yeah, Henry got a kick out of marrying Katherine, ‘rescuing’ her out of her bad situation. Probably made him feel heroic and manly, BIG boost to any man’s ego. But sometimes I wonder whether Katherine would of been better off if Henry hadn’t of married her? Or worse off? Seriously, what would of happend to Katherine if Henry hadn’t married her?

To be honest Mya I rather think she would have entered a convent, whether she would actuall profess to becoming a Nun I don’t know? I rather think she would have, as she was getting on a bit when she married Henry, and it was only because she steadfastly stood behind the fact she was to be Queen of England that it happened at all. I don’t think her father would have taken her back into his court, as far as he was concerned he washed his hands of Katherine the minute she set foot of the boat that brought her to England. So for him to have back in Spain I think would have been a bit embarrassing for him. Have the cast off Princess, who may or not be spoiled goods lurking around his court, he’d sooner she her at the bottom of the ocean than back in his presence. As KOA stood it was marriage to Henry or marriage to the big JC, there were no other options. You have to admire her balls though, she stuck to her guns, and yes it paid off, at least for a while.. I believe she and Henry were happy, for a time. But I don’t believe Anne’s appearence would have made any difference to the outcome, although he probably would have waited around until she died before he looked around for another bride, despite his complaints to his clergy about Leviticus etc.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 22, 2012
1:42 pm
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yeah I could see Katherine going into a convent, it’s basically the safest place for her and I think she’d be happy there since she was so passionate about her religion and close to her God. And if she liked it well enough then I could also see her wanting to be a full time Nun but I don’t know, maybe she wouldn’t of in case one day she wanted to have children and marriage else where.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

March 23, 2012
9:00 am
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2337
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Henry must have been the answer to her dreams. She’s spent 7/8 years in limbo waiting for her life to re-start one way or another. Return to Aragon and hope that Ferdinand would find her a second husband or wait in England and hope that H7 would allow her marriage to Henry.

I don’t think she would have become a nun, though. It doesn’t seem part of her nature. Though as a discarded widow she may have had little choice at the end of the day.

It's always bunnies.

March 23, 2012
9:47 am
Avatar
Sharon
Binghamton, NY
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2115
Member Since:
February 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anyanka, I am re-reading Starkey’s Six Wives also.

I have always wondered about this. Henry VII wasn’t trying very hard to find a wife for Henry after Arthur’s death. His choice for Henry seems to have always been Katherine. However, he wanted the money he felt was owed him by Ferdinand and Isabella. So they haggled. After her mother died, there was little hope for another husband for Katherine. Spain was in turmoil over Isabella’s portion. A daughter of I&F was marketable. A daughter of Ferdinand was a toss up. What a horrible position she was in.

I don’t know if KOA would have become a nun either. It is entirely possible I suppose. I keep going back to her remarks about joining a nunnery when Compaggio put forth the alternative. She was outraged. She told him she was called to be a wife, not a nun. Not quoting. I know that was many years later and another husband later, but I think she must have always felt that strongly about it right from the beginning. She fought to stay in England. She felt it was her destiny to be Queen of England if not with Arthur, then with Henry.

March 23, 2012
2:15 pm
Avatar
DuchessofBrittany
Canada
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 846
Member Since:
June 7, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

After reading Giles Tremlett bio on KOA, I doubt Katherine would have become a nun. From the time she was a child, she was told she was meant to be Queen of England. It was her destiny and God’s chosen path for her. I cannot image after all her years in England, she would back down and enter a nunnery. It seems to a woman like KOA, she believed in God’s will, and he would make her Queen. She was deeply religious, but she did not live a nun’s lifestyle. She liked fine clothes, music, good food, conversation, and she wanted children.

It seems Henry VIII felt he was saving KOA from ger situation. The whole affair played into Henry’s love of chivalry. He was saving the beautiful Princess from a fate worst than death. He was the knight in shining armour. In all that, I think he felt something strong for KOA. I stop short of calling it love because I cannot accept Henry being capable of it. Henry VII kept a young Henry on a short lease, and it does appear KOA was the bride of choice. But the ever shrewd Henry VII wanted her dowry in full, and was going to do whatever it too to get it. I imagine he knew his son’s affection for KOA, and separated them because of it.

"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn

March 23, 2012
5:36 pm
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It’s a hypothectical question though, what IF Henry didn’t marry Katherine? What would of happend to her if Henry decided NOT to marry her? – We all know he did end up marrying her despite anything urging him not to. Henry VIII DID marry Katherine of Aragon in the end.

You can never say what would of happend because you just don’t know, but there are other options or ways she could of gone. Like a nunnery or convent however you want to say it, there’s also, maybe, other marriage options. I don’t know though.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

March 23, 2012
5:59 pm
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2337
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

As I see KOA, she was a woman of action. When faced with difficulties, she strove to overcome them.

Her actions as regent when Henry was fighting the French shows her to be a student of her parents. When Henry started the Great Matter, Katherine was physically, intellectually and emotionally ready to fight all the way for her marriage, her daughter and her husband.

To me, that’s not the kind of woman who would willing embrace the vail and become secluded though it might be she would emulate Margaret Beaufort and be a lay-sister following some of the rules but living in the outside world.

It's always bunnies.

March 24, 2012
6:42 am
Avatar
Boleyn
Kent.
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2285
Member Since:
January 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anyanka said

As I see KOA, she was a woman of action. When faced with difficulties, she strove to overcome them.

Her actions as regent when Henry was fighting the French shows her to be a student of her parents. When Henry started the Great Matter, Katherine was physically, intellectually and emotionally ready to fight all the way for her marriage, her daughter and her husband.

To me, that’s not the kind of woman who would willing embrace the vail and become secluded though it might be she would emulate Margaret Beaufort and be a lay-sister following some of the rules but living in the outside world.

Anyanka, Once again your’ve hit the nail on the head, and yes I rather think you might be right. For KOA it was marriage or nothing, so yes I do think if Henry hadn’t of married her she would have become a lay sister instead. But where would she live? She couldn’t live with Margaret Beaufort as she died only a matter of months after Henry 7th. Am I right in thinking that a lay sister is more or less free to come and go as she pleases? if so, Would Henry want his cast off bride hanging around his court?
What I don’t understand is Henry 7th’s attitude towards KOA. If he had wanted the money he was owed, why didn’t he marry Henry to KOA when he was 14? KOA might have had a fair few sons in the cradle/nurseries, before Henry 7th died then perhaps Henry wouldn’t have been such a bastard towards the end of his life. Why did KOA’s dad more or less abandon her, surely he would have wanted what was best for his daughter, after I’m given to believe that Ferdanand, was quite vocal in not wanting KOA going to England in the first place as he felt that the Tudor Dynasty was a pig in a poke, and that the Planatagnet dynasty would rise up and toss the Tudor upstarts out on their arses soon enough. Was Ferdanand, hoping that would happen and that his daughter would marry one of his Plantanant ancestors instead? Why was the suggestion that Henry 7th marry KOA himself met with such horror when it was proposed to Ferdanand? I actually think it was a pretty good idea Henry 7th was ill but he was probably still able to do the business and get a few spare sons in the Nursery..
But as Sharon said, when Isabella died she was put in a bit of a horrible position. Spain was turned upside down, and England wasn’t such a strong a power in the world’s eyes without the combined might of Aragon and Castille. Poor KOA was slam in the middle of all this crap too.
KOA you must admit must have had a lot of strength and courage to cope with all she did. As KOA says in the film Anne of a Thousand days..
KOA “I was a lonely girl brought from Spain at 15 to be used for English Politics…. I will live and die your wife and your Queen.”
I’m a pagan myself, but even I have have to say it God Bless Queen Katherine..

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 214

Currently Online:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Anyanka: 2337

Boleyn: 2285

Sharon: 2115

Bella44: 933

DuchessofBrittany: 846

Mya Elise: 781

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 0

Members: 427580

Moderators: 0

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 13

Topics: 1711

Posts: 23074

Newest Members:

FloydArect, walwera, jffrsnfrst, Bearustault, KdyyaVzacype, loveawake.ru

Administrators: Claire: 959