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What if Anne was...
October 23, 2011
8:57 am
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Mya Elise
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What if Anne was guilty? How would you think differently of her? Would she still be your favorite?

If Anne was guilty then i probably would of never felt that angry towards Henry. I mean just because a woman cheated doesn't mean she should die, thats going overboard and a bit of an over reaction but people didn't think that way back then. I wouldn't love Henry but i wouldn't exactly hate him, I mean he still treated his wives pretty badly.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

October 23, 2011
10:19 am
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Elliemarianna
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Yes, Anne would still be my favourite. If she did cheat on Henry, I don't blame her to be honest. People want to be loved. She was promised love by Henry, but when he was giving his 'love' to others, she may have looked elsewhere. Not out of promiscuity, but out of a need for someone to hold her, to love her and give her the attention she craved.

Anne would still be the amazing, forward thinking woman she has always been. I don't think she did cheat on Henry, however.

"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.

October 24, 2011
4:02 am
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Sophie1536
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If Anne was guilty I'd still find her fascinating and definitely my favourite as to me Anne was a woman well ahead of her time. Most women of her status were just dull and quiet, comforming to what was expected of them but Anne she was a firecracker and everything she shouldn't have been born in the era she was.

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October 24, 2011
8:33 pm
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Bella44
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That's an interesting question to try and answer but on reflection I'd say she'd probably still be my favourite wife, simply because she was so much more than how she was judged at the time.  Such a pity they couldn't see that then!  I don't dislike Katherine Howard any the less because I tend to think she was more guilty than Anne.  Both were married to an impossible man Laugh 

October 26, 2011
5:32 pm
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Mya Elise
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I think i'd still like Anne and everything but i'd feel a bit differently about her. I do not think she was guilty and yes i think Anne had a right to cheat since Henry already did and didn't think twice about it. My problem would be her lieing about it and keeping her innocence, i mean if you did it and you know your going to die no matter what then what's the point of lieing? Maybe she would of done it to torture Henry but still.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

October 27, 2011
12:53 am
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Elliemarianna
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Mya-Elise. said:

I think i'd still like Anne and everything but i'd feel a bit differently about her. I do not think she was guilty and yes i think Anne had a right to cheat since Henry already did and didn't think twice about it. My problem would be her lieing about it and keeping her innocence, i mean if you did it and you know your going to die no matter what then what's the point of lieing? Maybe she would of done it to torture Henry but still.

I don't think she would have lied, as this would have sent her straight to hell (in her eyes). She wanted to be free of pain, sleep and be free from the world, had she lied, she knew she would be in greater pain than ever imaginable… I don't believe in hell personally, as I'm not Christian, but I'm sure if you do, it can be a terrifying punishment if you do something wrong.

"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.

October 27, 2011
6:34 pm
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Mya Elise
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I'm just thinking of new ways this story could've happend. I obviously don't know for sure but it's nice to wonder what if and think of different possibilites for the story.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

October 28, 2011
5:39 am
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Elliemarianna said:

Yes, Anne would still be my favourite. If she did cheat on Henry, I don’t blame her to be honest. People want to be loved. She was promised love by Henry, but when he was giving his ‘love’ to others, she may have looked elsewhere. Not out of promiscuity, but out of a need for someone to hold her, to love her and give her the attention she craved.

Anne would still be the amazing, forward thinking woman she has always been. I don’t think she did cheat on Henry, however.

I absolutely agree Elliemarianna, my thoughts completely. I too believe she was faithful to Henry, but I think the reason for her inappropriate phrase to Mr Norris (“You look for dead mens shoes, for if aught were to happen to the King but good, you would look to have me”) was because she was looking for someone to love her- even though it was only courtly love.

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

October 28, 2011
7:21 pm
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Mya Elise
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Yeah it's like the scene in the Tudors where she says that to Norris in a taunting way then keeps persisting till he leaves and then she instantly regrets it.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

December 11, 2016
8:02 pm
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maya
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I doubt that Anne was guilty however even if she was guilty I wouldn’t think less of her.

Henry wasn’t faithful to her anyway and she would still be a remarkable woman with a remarkable daughter. Highly educated, ahead of her time, witty and not dull.

Also there were other measures that could have been used on her as well as Katherine Howard (for whom there are more evidences however even there it might be possible that Dereham just blackmailed with the past relationship to get the job and that the relationship with Culpeper might not have been that unforced as it seems). Exile for example however Henry’s ego couldn’t allow that.

December 13, 2016
4:04 pm
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Boleyn
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Anne was definitely NOT guilty, in fact if I have remembered correctly on a few of the dates that Cromwell threw up for Anne’s affairs, she was miles from London, visiting friends and in bed recovering from a miscarriage.

With K.H yes she was guilty but of nothing more than immoral and light living before her marriage to P.B. If she had, had a choice of who she wished to marry I feel she would have chosen Thomas Culpepper, but she really hadn’t got that choice, once P.B made it known that he wanted her. That slimy no good, jumped up poppingjay Norfolk, made sure of that. Poor K.H was thrown into the middle of a lions den, she made the best of a bad situation but ended up being devoured in the end.
I don’t believe that she and Culpepper had a sexual relationship, and I have always felt K.H’s letter to Culpepper is very strange and doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense. I feel that the whole thing was cobbled together from different letters that she may have written for her friends to their sweethearts, when she was in her grandmother’s household.
You are quite right there Maya, P.B’s ego was something that was almost as large as he was, and that stunk just as much as he did. He couldn’t afford to allow K.H to live in case she repeated what George B said in court, or what Anne was alleged to have said about P.B being hopeless in bed.
Think about it
K.O.A, Anne and Jane were dead, so they wouldn’t be able to leap to his defense and say, P.B was an excellent lover. A.O.C swore that their marriage wasn’t consummated, if she changed her story now, his divorce from her on those grounds could cause a few headaches, and A.O.C could well find herself in very hot water. So likewise she couldn’t leap to his defense and say “Oi Kathy watch you are saying about “enry, I never had it so good”
If P.B let her live and she repeated the gossip of what was said when Anne B died, P.B would look like a joke (well he was and is, but that besides the point) which would damage his standing as being the Golden Sod, I mean God he saw himself as.
Once he was dead of course K.P could say what she liked about him, i.e his winky was as big as a mouldy cashew nut. it wouldn’t matter as he was dead.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

December 18, 2016
9:58 pm
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Anyanka
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Boleyn said

K.O.A, Anne and Jane were dead, so they wouldn’t be able to leap to his defense and say, P.B was an excellent lover. A.O.C swore that their marriage wasn’t consummated, if she changed her story now, his divorce from her on those grounds could cause a few headaches, and A.O.C could well find herself in very hot water. So likewise she couldn’t leap to his defense and say “Oi Kathy watch you are saying about “enry, I never had it so good”
If P.B let her live and she repeated the gossip of what was said when Anne B died, P.B would look like a joke (well he was and is, but that besides the point) which would damage his standing as being the Golden Sod, I mean God he saw himself as.
Once he was dead of course K.P could say what she liked about him, i.e his winky was as big as a mouldy cashew nut. it wouldn’t matter as he was dead.  

However Mary Boleyn , Elizabeth Blount and Madge Shelton were still alive at the time.

It's always bunnies.

December 18, 2016
10:27 pm
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Anyanka
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While I don’t think Anne was guilty since the dates were spurious and blatantly contradictory at times, I doubt her guilt would change how I see her as a person.

Anne had her good points as well as her bad points. She was a devout Catholic who performed good deeds. But she was arrogant , wilful and highly stubborn in an era when women were supposed to be quiet self-effacing dolls.

She was a trailblazer. She was certainly a huge influence on her daughter.

For a lot of people, of whom I’m one, she was a large pivot for both the Tudors dynasty and for English history. Any guilt she may have had will never take that position from her.

It's always bunnies.

July 2, 2018
6:35 pm
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seymour
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If Anne had been guilty I would think differently of her. I think we have to remember the time in which she lived. Henry was desperate for a legitimate heir. That was part of the reason it was treason, if she were cheating she was putting the succession in jeopardy. Anne also knew the rules regarding the double standard for men and women. It was ok for the King to cheat it was not ok for the Queen. Her job was to look the other way as her predecessor had done. For these reasons I don’t believe she was guilty, she wanted to bear the legitimate heir just as badly as Henry did.

What Anne did do was try to provide Henry with a mistress of her choosing, Madge Shelton. As strange as that may seem to us today that relationship was more common than a King who was faithful or a Queen who cheated.

Now in today’s time period the belief that it is okay to cheat if cheated on is understandable and never would we think it was right to put your wife to death for their unfaithfulness. Sadly, I think Anne and Henry at first were so in love and Anne, I’m sure, felt she would have no problem giving Henry many children. Most people think that can’t happen to me.

" ...and, as you can raise me no higher in the world, you are now sending me to be a saint in heaven."

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