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The most annoying thing someone has said to me about Anne!
November 11, 2011
4:13 pm
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Claire-Louise
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Today at University I had a book in my hand about Anne Boleyn. I am lucky enough to be studying a module about History in the media, called 'Representing the Past' and I am studying 'Anne of the Thousand days' for my project which is due in the end of this Semester.

Anyways, a young lady….well….a friend of mine in fact exclaimed how “She loved the Tudors, but hated Anne”. When I proceeded to ask her why she replied with the usual “she had too much to say for herself, she was too opinionated, she was an upstart…blah..blah..blah”. But then, she said what is in my opinion the stupidest thing anyone could say about Anne…..she said that Anne was completely and utterly stupid and thick!!!!!

When I questioned the young lady, her response was ” she knew what time she was living in…she should have known to keep her mouth shut”.

Aaaaarggghhhh how annoying!!!! Yell Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but to say that Anne Boleyn was stupid is in my personal opinion ridiculous!!!!! I didn't even know where to start to argue back, my list was too long!!!!Yell

November 11, 2011
4:35 pm
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Bella44
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As we all know Anne was anything but stupid – what a completely ignorant thing to say!  Arrgh!!!!

I wonder if your friend feels the same way about Elizabeth l…?!  Or Katherine of Aragon?

Or any number of women throughout history who, despite the times they lived in, had the courage to stick up for themselves and take charge of their own lives?  Granted, weren’t a lot during the 16th century but Anne was most definitely one of them and one of the major reasons why I admire her so much.  If it wasn’t for all those women long ago having opinions and not being afraid to express them, we women today would be so much the worse off.  

Oh, and what about women suffering today under oppressive regimes?  Are they just to keep quiet because surely they know what country they live in?!!!!!

I have to agree with you Claire-Louise, the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard about Anne ever.  And about every woman who's ever lived.  Hope you gave your friend a right ear-full!!!!!!! 

November 11, 2011
4:48 pm
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Claire-Louise
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I tried to explain this….but my friend seems to think that I am a feminist and so a lost cause….Frown I informed her that one of the main reasons I admire Anne is because of her intelligence and courage. As Ives says, ” she broke through the glass ceiling by sheer character and initiative” not long ago I had a bit of a rant on here about the way I feel that British men are becoming….but the attitude of some British women….well….it leaves a lot to be desired.

November 11, 2011
4:54 pm
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Claire-Louise
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Bella44 said:

I have to agree with you Claire-Louise, the STUPIDEST thing I’ve ever heard about Anne ever.  And about every woman who’s ever lived.  Hope you gave your friend a right ear-full!!!!!!! 

 

 

Lol I sure did Laugh

November 11, 2011
5:10 pm
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Bella44
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It is sad how feminism is regarded sometimes today, have to agree with you there Claire-Louise.  Sometimes its as if we're going backwards not forwards  Yell Yell Yell

November 11, 2011
7:39 pm
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Anyanka
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Wonder how she feels about Margaeret Thatcher, Dr Condelezza Rice or Hillary Clinton?

 

Or any of the other world leaders who just happen to be female?

It's always bunnies.

November 11, 2011
8:40 pm
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Mya Elise
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Wow, i’ve heard people say rude things about Anne but this is really …. insulting. Especially to us Anne fans and Anne herself. It's like calling us stupid for liking Anne. Has this girl even read bio's or something? I mean watching Tudors and making your whole judge ment on Anne on what you watch really doesn't give the whole look at who Anne was. I mean Tudor's Anne was fantastic and wonderful but they still portrayed her differently then real Anne.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

November 12, 2011
5:03 am
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Neil Kemp
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Claire-Louise, if your friend followed her argument through to a logical conclusion then there were an awful lot of “stupid and thick” people around (men and women) during Henry's reign. For example, would she consider Thomas More to have been thick and stupid for standing by his principles and speaking his mind? After all he “knew the times he was living in” and must have known the possible consequences of his actions. The list of good, true and unfortunate people who fell foul of Henry's fickle and cruel nature are too many to list here, but we all know who they were. Were they all “stupid and thick” then? We know better, and you could quickly rubbish your friend's theory about Anne. My main fear is, if she is typical of the average student of today in terms of historical knowledge, then we should be very, very worried.

November 12, 2011
10:47 am
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Claire-Louise
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Mya-Elise. said:

Wow, i've heard people say rude things about Anne but this is really …. insulting. Especially to us Anne fans and Anne herself. It’s like calling us stupid for liking Anne. Has this girl even read bio’s or something? I mean watching Tudors and making your whole judge ment on Anne on what you watch really doesn’t give the whole look at who Anne was. I mean Tudor’s Anne was fantastic and wonderful but they still portrayed her differently then real Anne.

 

I know, it is rather insulting. Well, she says that she has read David Starkey's  'The Six Wives' and claims to be a big Jane Seymour fan (her reason: Jane Seymour apparently always did as she was told and was a perfect woman) However today she claimed that there is a theory that Anne never had a sister and Mary Boleyn never existed….Confused Perhaps we can say for sure her comments on the Tudor period can be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

November 12, 2011
11:49 am
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Bella44
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Claire-Louise said:

 

I know, it is rather insulting. Well, she says that she has read David Starkey's  'The Six Wives' and claims to be a big Jane Seymour fan (her reason: Jane Seymour apparently always did as she was told and was a perfect woman) However today she claimed that there is a theory that Anne never had a sister and Mary Boleyn never existed….Confused Perhaps we can say for sure her comments on the Tudor period can be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

 

____________________________________________________________________________

 

Wow, I've never heard of the theory of Mary Boleyn never existing.  Your friend sure has some interesting ideas! 

November 12, 2011
4:30 pm
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Mya Elise
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Haha, then where did Henry Carey and Katherine Carey come from? And who was William Carey married to ?

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

November 14, 2011
8:45 am
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Claire-Louise
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Mya-Elise. said:

Haha, then where did Henry Carey and Katherine Carey come from? And who was William Carey married to ?

 

It's such a random theory Isn't it! Confused

November 14, 2011
8:57 pm
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Bill1978
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I can only imagine what your friend was trying to say but failed to articulate well. I'm going to assume that perhaps the angle they were coming from is that Anne knew Henry was a womaniser and to think that he wouldn't cheat on her, like he did her when he was with Katherine OfAragon, had a certain level of stupidity. I often think something like that when I'm reading/observing Anne's reaction to the Jane Seymour affair

Please don't think that I think Anne was dumb, but I do often find myself when watching the Tudors or The Other Boleyn Girl thinking to myself shut up Anne shut up, like somehow I can change history. As you've all said, it takes great courage to stand up for what you believe in, but there is that bittersweetness of hindsight where I think if only Anne had played 'the dutiful wife' better maybe her story would not have ended so sadly.Of course that's ignoring the political going ons behind the scene where people were trying to rid thecourt of the Boleyn faction. But who knows, maybe if Anne had played a better hand she could have been offered a straight forward divorce like Anne Of Cleves.

Oh the joys of what ifs.

The fact that yourfriend is now discussing Mary Boelyn is fiction as a fact, perhaps she really doesn't have a grasp on the Tudor history.

November 14, 2011
11:08 pm
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Impish_Impulse
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Bill1978 said:

I think if only Anne had played ‘the dutiful wife’ better maybe her story would not have ended so sadly.Of course that’s ignoring the political going ons behind the scene where people were trying to rid the court of the Boleyn faction. But who knows, maybe if Anne had played a better hand she could have been offered a straight forward divorce like Anne Of Cleves.

Oh the joys of what ifs.

But Anne of Cleves didn't have a child who would be bastardized in the process. I think Anne would have resisted any offer that would deny Elizabeth's rights. She and KOA were alike in that respect; and alike in that both lost their fight to safeguard their daughters' rights. And alike in that both women died before knowing their daughters would prevail.

                        survivor ribbon                             

               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

November 15, 2011
8:49 am
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Mya Elise
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Yeah, if Anne wasn't pregnant and Henry wanted a divorce right away i think Anne would've been angry but she would of probably backed away. Elizabeth was important to Anne and i don't think someone as strong as Anne would go without a fight when it came to her child. Anna Of Cleves didn't have any children so it was easier to go quietly without a fight, i'm sure if she did have a kid then maybe she would of done everything she could to make sure her child had rights or maybe she would of backed away and take the kids with her? AOC never had that option though because she wasn't a mother.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

November 15, 2011
1:46 pm
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Sharon
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Anne of Cleves took Henry's offer out of relief that she wasn't going to lose her head.  She didn't have to return to her awful brother, and she was given a very nice life living off the settlement Henry offered.

Henry fell in love with Anne because of her intelligence and her personality.  Yet after he is married to her he wants her to change everything about herself?  He wants her to become this silent person who has babies and never says a word about anything in Henry's life?  That was never going to happen. Henry knew Anne better than anyone else. They were together for 10 years.  He knew she would always look at him as a partner.  It was his fault that he refused to continue that partnership.  He certainly knew she was opinionated for heaven's sake.  Anne could no more shut up than I can at the moment.  Embarassed  These two had changed history together. We are supposed to believe that after the marriage took place, he felt he was being nagged to death and she deserved to die because she wouldn't shut up?

As to that thing with Jane and the others.  Anne certainly did believe that Henry would not cheat on her.  If that's foolish, then so be it.   She wasn't stupid because she believed he loved her and wouldn't cheat on her.  He had turned the world upside down to marry her.  Most women in love go to their marriage thinking their men won't cheat on them. I know, I know; KOA put up with it. It was supposedly the queenly thing to do. My understanding is that KOA was hurt when Henry cheated on her.  Because she kept quiet about it, we're suppose to think that Anne could have saved herself had she done the same?  Not a chance!

Henry didn't kill Anne because she wouldn't shut up. He didn't kill her because she didn't like him cheating on her. She died because he wanted sons and he had decided that Anne was not going to produce them.  She died because he wanted another wife. Her death is what should apall people, not her personality.  Anne was acting the way she had always acted and Henry knew what she was like when he married her.  It was Henry's fault that Anne died!

 While I'm at it, Claire-Louise's friend's attitude is disturbing to say the least. Sounds to me like she has an awful lot to say about a subject she knows little about.  Well two subjects: Anne and feminists. 

November 15, 2011
2:55 pm
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Bill1978
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I know Anne’s situation is very complicated and I will admit that my deep understanding of the situation is very supeficial and I will probably look like a fool saying this, but I will say it anyway. I do believe that if Anne wasn’t so overly opinionated about matters to the men on the Privy Council perhaps she wouldn’t have annoyed the men who seemed to have made it their mission to rid the woman permanently from court. I’m not saying they were justified, in fact the poor things seemed to be emulating their king with taking out bruised egos on innocent people. But a part of me, does think that if Anne played the role of Queen consort as opposed to ruling Queen, perhaps she wouldn’t have annoyed the men so much that they would go out of their way to fabricate a story that with our hindsight is laughable to believe in. In all the fiction stuff I have seen, she is portrayed as someone who thought because she was married to the king it meant she was also ruling the country, so I can kinda understand why the men of that time had their egos bruised. I mean Henry turned England upside down just because the politics at the time thought women couldn’t rule, so why is the Queen consort rambling like she is the ruler.

Thankfully Mary & Elizabeth showed that women could rule in their own right and perhaps if Anne came after these two, perhaps she would have been spared her fate. I don’t think Anne was stupid for what she did. I think she was courageous for challenging to the norm of the time, I just think she was a little naive to not think her approach to dealing with the men of Henry wouldn’t come back to bite her in the butt. If and it is a big IF, she was seen in the eyes of the men as a 'nicer' person, perhaps someone could have found some 'valid' ground for divorce and encouraged Henry to go that way, instead of the drastic action of beheading your Queen. It's a pity that people enjoy cutting tall poppies.

And Henry does have to take the blame for the Privy Council’s actions. He is the one who loved the passionately opiniated lady in waiting, but yet couldn’t tolerate the same woman once she was Queen. I can imagine him whinging about Anne in council and these men whose goal in life is only to advance themselves, jumped at the opportunity to be the man who saved Henry from this nagging woman. I’m sure if Anne had provided a son first up, he still would have loved Anne’s opinion and thus have no reason for the men to plot their fiction. But once again, bruised egos came into play when all he got from Anne was a ‘lousy girl who would amount to nothing’

November 15, 2011
5:39 pm
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Mya Elise
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I absolutely love everything Sharon said, seriously you deserve a standing ovation right now!!!!

Henry spent years getting to know Anne, he knew her personality and how difficult she could be and he certainly put up with it before marriage so why would he want her to change just because they got married? It's seriously like he expected her to change with the snap of his finger right after they got married. It's like he wanted her to change all along but waited till she was his wife and he thought because she was his officially now she would change for him. ????

Men, i swear…

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

November 15, 2011
5:49 pm
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Bill1978
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I guess Henry was too blinded by Anne's 'guarantee' of a son, to notice her personality. LOL

November 16, 2011
10:32 am
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Claire-Louise
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Sharon you have put that perfectly Smile

I agree with Mya-Elise…standing ovation for Sharon!!! Smile Smile

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