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8:46 am
October 28, 2011
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I’m reading Ive’s book on Anne Boleyn at the moment which I am really enjoying. I just came across something on page 119 which intrigued me. He says in Wyatt’s biography of her he mentions that Katherine was trying to help Anne fend off Henry’s advances at first. Ives goes on to say that he “spoils it” by claiming Katherine kept playing cards with Anne to show off her deformed finger, but Ives thinks it’s likely Katherine may have tried to keep Anne out of Henry’s way at first.
Usually, of course, Anne is depicted as flouncing around and smirking at Katherine all the time in books and movies. But it got me wondering what their relationship would have been like at first. Most historians point out that Katherine never would have allowed herself to act as if Anne was any sort of threat. Anne, well I just can’t see her trying to rub anything in Katherine’s face (nor have I really seen anything of the sort documented) I imagine that a bit later on when Anne was still in her service, just before Henry was seeking the divorce, that they all tip-toed around pretending nothing was happening. But do you think Anne may have asked Katherine for help at first?
10:22 am
May 7, 2010
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Hi Olga
I don’t know if Anne would have sought help from Katherine but I do think Katherine would have been looking out for Anne. As the Queen she would have felt a great responsibility for the young ladies in her train so yes I do think it quite possible she would have tried to ‘protect’ Anne. She knew what her hubbie was like and having a bunch of nubiles surrounding her would have been hard work at times I think. She was also religious and would have been careful of their being kept from sin and what have you. Whether Anne appreciated the thought/effort though I don’t know. I think she (Anne) would have felt herself well able to cope with flirting and all the rest and may well even have resented in some ways having yet another ‘mother’ fussing over her adventures with the opposite sex. She was not really a child by the time she arrived at court and while I can’t ever picture her as a ‘rebellious teenager/young woman’ type I can see her being very sure of her own self and what she wanted from life.
As to when the end was near for Katherine at court I think the atmosphere must have been really awful, all the whispering and gossip and a lot of bad feeling. Very uncomfortable to say the least.
Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60
11:53 am
January 3, 2012
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It was perhaps a six of one and half a dozen of another situation, with COA and Anne. As Maggie rightly says COA was responsible for protecting the virtue of her ladies, but at the same time also looking out for a suitable husband for them.
Bear in mind when Anne came along, COA baby making days were all but over and she was desperate to have a son as Henry was. Keeping Anne close to her, meant that Henry would also be there, so in a way COA used Anne (sort of) to keep Henry close to her. A sprat to catch a mackerel situation.
COA was a desperate woman and deperate people do desperate things. Henry had started spending more and more time away from COA’s rooms, really only seeing her at Mass and meal times. He hardly slept with her, and had had many mistresses, which she knew about of course, but she was frightened even before Anne came on the scene that if she didn’t come up with the goods (Son) Henry would put her aside. COA just saw Anne not so much as a threat, but more of a way of getting Henry to come to her bed more often.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
12:13 pm
October 28, 2011
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That makes sense Maggy, I suppose the subject wouldn’t have been broached in any sense, it would be an awkward conversation.
Bo I think Henry was keeping them apart after Anne came back from Hever after her illness, I’ll have to double-check. Did she continue as a lady-in-waiting?
9:39 pm
January 3, 2012
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Olga.. Henry had decided to get shot of COA when Anne fell ill, he was distraught at the thought of Anne dying of the sweat when he had finally made his mind up that COA had to go… When Anne returned to court I believe she was still classed as COA’s lady in waiting, but in truth she was a Queen in waiting.
If Henry was keeping Anne apart from COA it was his way of telling the world that COA was surplus to requirements and that as he had made it clear that he wanted a annulment and he no longer felt it neccecary to have anything to do with COA.
That’s what I think anyway….
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
12:11 am
August 3, 2010
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This is very interesting!! I have wondered about CoA’s and Anne’s relationship for a while. Although I’m sure many historical fiction authors have turned it into a bitter rivalry, I believe the actual relationship may have taken several paths. I suppose intense, outward rivalry could be a possibility, but somehow, with Anne’s cool arrogance and Catherine’s stoic pride, I just don’t see these remarkable ladies lowering themselves beneath their dignity in order to get back at another woman.
Still, I’m not sure I buy into the idea of them conspiring against Henry so that Catherine would remain his wife and Anne would be discarded. First of all, I personally think that Anne probably wanted a wedding and a crown from nearly the beginning–whether out of ambition, love for him, or a mix (I would guess a mix)–and then why would she go along with the wife of the man she wanted to marry?
Honestly, I would suppose that they were cordial to each other and perhaps even respected each other for certain mutual qualities (stubbornness, pride, intelligence, etc.) but were never friends due not only to the competition for Henry but also for the opposite manners in which they conducted themselves and the different circles they ran in.
"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"
