Anne Boleyn's Guilt Or Innocence... | Page 3 | Anne Boleyn | Forum

Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Anne Boleyn's Guilt Or Innocence...
March 30, 2013
10:57 pm
Avatar
KayKay
Virginia, USA
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 36
Member Since:
November 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

LadyPrincess said

I agree: AB was innocent.

H8th was a cruel man, all he had to do was to declare their marriage null and void based on the grounds of either:

A. Her sister, Mary, had been his mistress.
B. At the time they got married, he was technically still legally married to KOA.
C. She had been engaged to Henry Percy.

But I guess he was afraid that if AB was exiled she would summon up supporters and have Elizabeth lay claim to throne.

I agree! I never thought about your last statement. I’m sure if Anne had survived she would have tried to gather up supporters and have her own daughter lay her claim on the throne. Who could blame her after what she would have went through?

"She who has been the Queen of England on earth will today become a Queen in Heaven."- Archbishop Thomas Cranmer

March 31, 2013
1:02 pm
Avatar
Boleyn
Kent.
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2285
Member Since:
January 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don’t think so, she would have known that if she had agreed to the annulment of her marriage to Henry, then she and Elizabeth wouldn’t have lived long enough to enjoy their freedom. In short by sacrificing her own life she safeguarded Elizabeth future and she knew that. Elizabeth future was made safe when the sword chopped Anne’s head off. Anne was a remarkable woman and knew Henry inside out and back to front. She made the ultimate sacrifice. Her own life to save Elizabeth’s life and future.

Henry Percy denied that there was a contract of marriage between them, if he had of agreed it would have done 2 things.
1 Ended his unhappy marriage with Mary Talbot. If you think about it that sacrifice too makes Percy a remarkable fellow too. Bitterly unhappy and yet prepared to stay married to protect both Anne and Elizabeth from Henry’s malice.
2 Placed Anne, Elizabeth and himself in mortal danger as Henry I don’t doubt would have found a way of destroying all of the them, and stealing the land and titles that had belonged to his family for many generations.

I wonder what he would have made of Elizabeth if had lived long enough to see her become Queen?

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 31, 2013
6:27 pm
Avatar
LadyPrincess
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 63
Member Since:
February 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

KayKay_KS said
I agree! I never thought about your last statement. I’m sure if Anne had survived she would have tried to gather up supporters and have her own daughter lay her claim on the throne. Who could blame her after what she would have went through?

Smile
Of course this wouldn’t have ever happened. But if it had, I suppose Anne would have had the Boleyn’s, Howard’s , her admirers, and Lutheran followers on her side. Which is not many. But perhaps Francis 1 would have supported her too. I could see him do this: just to get back at Henry.

Boleyn said
Henry Percy denied that there was a contract of marriage between them, if he had of agreed it would have done 2 things.
1 Ended his unhappy marriage with Mary Talbot. If you think about it that sacrifice too makes Percy a remarkable fellow too. Bitterly unhappy and yet prepared to stay married to protect both Anne and Elizabeth from Henry’s malice.
2 Placed Anne, Elizabeth and himself in mortal danger as Henry I don’t doubt would have found a way of destroying all of the them, and stealing the land and titles that had belonged to his family for many generations.

I never thought too highly of Percy….Does this mean that he genuinely loved Anne? If Percy did come out and say that he was pre-contracted to Anne (even if it was a lie) during her imprisonment then (as you stated) he would have saved himself from a horrible marriage yet there could have been a small chance that he might have saved Anne. Yet he did not.

I always took this to mean that he didn’t want to take the chance of getting himself in trouble — because he must have known how volatile and unpredictable Henry was…particularly during this time. I don’t think he ever really loved Anne. Or if he did, he certainly didn’t care for her more than himself, his title, family, and lands.

“How haps it, Governor, yesterday my Lady Princess, and today but my Lady Elizabeth?"- Elizabeth I

April 1, 2013
3:46 pm
Avatar
Boleyn
Kent.
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2285
Member Since:
January 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

LadyPrincess said

KayKay_KS said
I agree! I never thought about your last statement. I’m sure if Anne had survived she would have tried to gather up supporters and have her own daughter lay her claim on the throne. Who could blame her after what she would have went through?

Smile
Of course this wouldn’t have ever happened. But if it had, I suppose Anne would have had the Boleyn’s, Howard’s , her admirers, and Lutheran followers on her side. Which is not many. But perhaps Francis 1 would have supported her too. I could see him do this: just to get back at Henry.

Boleyn said
Henry Percy denied that there was a contract of marriage between them, if he had of agreed it would have done 2 things.
1 Ended his unhappy marriage with Mary Talbot. If you think about it that sacrifice too makes Percy a remarkable fellow too. Bitterly unhappy and yet prepared to stay married to protect both Anne and Elizabeth from Henry’s malice.
2 Placed Anne, Elizabeth and himself in mortal danger as Henry I don’t doubt would have found a way of destroying all of the them, and stealing the land and titles that had belonged to his family for many generations.

I never thought too highly of Percy….Does this mean that he genuinely loved Anne? If Percy did come out and say that he was pre-contracted to Anne (even if it was a lie) during her imprisonment then (as you stated) he would have saved himself from a horrible marriage yet there could have been a small chance that he might have saved Anne. Yet he did not.

I always took this to mean that he didn’t want to take the chance of getting himself in trouble — because he must have known how volatile and unpredictable Henry was…particularly during this time. I don’t think he ever really loved Anne. Or if he did, he certainly didn’t care for her more than himself, his title, family, and lands.

Like so many eldest children in families Henry Percy was under enormous pressure from his father, to carry on the family line. If he had agreed that he was indeed pre contracted to Anne yes his marriage probably would have been dissolved, but Anne would have died anyway H8 made up his mind to kill Anne the minute she miscarried. All Percy would have done would have blackened the name of Northumberland and perhaps ruined the prospects of his younger brothers and sisters marriage value. After all if you think about it.. Who would want to marry someone from the family who was once assoiciated with a royal whore (as Anne was called by some people).
Certainly that does make it seem as if Percy was quite cowardly, in denying everything, but in a time when the family name was everything, he was really left with no other choice.
I think he did love Anne, and I certainly think that his death just over a year later was perhaps a little bit from heartbreak. Mary Talbot from what little I have read about did seem to be a vicious old shrew at times, and it can’t have been easy living with her henpecking him every five minutes over his shortcommings.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

April 1, 2013
4:05 pm
Avatar
LadyPrincess
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 63
Member Since:
February 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Bolyen. I do see what you mean. Henry Percy was put in a rather hard predicament. It seems that he did love Anne but at the same time not quite so much to ruin his family for her. Do you think Anne genuinely love Percy or his titles, wealth and lands more? I think she loved him yet her ambition was so great that it overshadowed it.

“How haps it, Governor, yesterday my Lady Princess, and today but my Lady Elizabeth?"- Elizabeth I

April 1, 2013
6:53 pm
Avatar
Boleyn
Kent.
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2285
Member Since:
January 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That’s a difficult one Lady princess.Given the circumstances at the time before Henry Tulip stuck his beak in I raher think that a marriage between the Boleyn/Percy family was a very ambitious marriage, and perhaps better than Anne could have realistically dreampt of at the time.. Looking at the marrital history of her Anne’s mother and father that too was a very ambitious match. Yes I do think Anne did love Percy but perhaps not with the same passion and fire that Henry Tulip brought out in her. Again going back to marriage issues. Her sister Mary married William Carey who was just a little higher in standing as a gopher (Go for this and go for that) in Henry Tulip’s household. He was a gentleman but not of the nobility. Her second husband was a lowly country Gentleman, he had a title but it wasn’t really much of a title considering that at that time Henry Tulip had made his thoughts known to Anne. George Boleyn was married to Jane Parker, no one knows for sure if the marriage was happy or not, but I’m inclined to think that it was an amicable enough marriage. But again Jane Parker was from humble origins.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

April 1, 2013
7:43 pm
Avatar
Louise
Hampshire, England
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 612
Member Since:
December 5, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Jane Parker came from a very prestigious family. She certainly didn’t come from humble beginnings. The marriage of George and Jane was an equal match of two dynastic families.

April 1, 2013
10:40 pm
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2345
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Boleyn said

That’s a difficult one Lady princess.Given the circumstances at the time before Henry Tulip stuck his beak in I raher think that a marriage between the Boleyn/Percy family was a very ambitious marriage, and perhaps better than Anne could have realistically dreampt of at the time.. Looking at the marrital history of her Anne’s mother and father that too was a very ambitious match. Yes I do think Anne did love Percy but perhaps not with the same passion and fire that Henry Tulip brought out in her. Again going back to marriage issues. Her sister Mary married William Carey who was just a little higher in standing as a gopher (Go for this and go for that) in Henry Tulip’s household. He was a gentleman but not of the nobility. Her second husband was a lowly country Gentleman, he had a title but it wasn’t really much of a title considering that at that time Henry Tulip had made his thoughts known to Anne. George Boleyn was married to Jane Parker, no one knows for sure if the marriage was happy or not, but I’m inclined to think that it was an amicable enough marriage. But again Jane Parker was from humble origins.

William Carey was in fact a cousion of Henry’s since he was descended from John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset as was Henry. While he had no high title as such , family was an important consideration when filling up royal households.

It's always bunnies.

April 1, 2013
11:02 pm
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2345
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Louise said

Jane Parker came from a very prestigious family. She certainly didn’t come from humble beginnings. The marriage of George and Jane was an equal match of two dynastic families.

Exactly, Jane had been groomed to be a courtier in the same way as Anne and George. Had she not been married to George, she would be known more for being one of the few women who had served all of Henry’s wives rather than having a post-houmous repetuation second only to Anne’s of being evil incarnate. I beleive that KH would not have approached some-one who wasn’t family to aide her since I suspect that even some of her comrades from the dowager duchess’s household would have baulked at such an act.

It's always bunnies.

April 2, 2013
9:16 am
Avatar
Boleyn
Kent.
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2285
Member Since:
January 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thank you Louise and Anyanka. That was actually something I didn’t know about either Will Carey or Jane Parker..
Quite right Anyanka if Jane Parker was as black as she had been painted I doubt she would have got any place in any nobel household.

As for Will Carey that’s very interesting. Theorecticly he was a claiment to the throne a very watered down claiment I grant you but still a rival for H8.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: Europe/London

Most Users Ever Online: 83

Currently Online:
24 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Anyanka: 2345

Boleyn: 2285

Sharon: 2115

Bella44: 934

DuchessofBrittany: 847

Mya Elise: 782

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 0

Members: 426008

Moderators: 0

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 13

Topics: 1689

Posts: 23616

Newest Members:

GuinamC, Bluiteple1, clariceyv11, AndresX, monajk3, AnneS

Administrators: Claire: 998