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had Anne died before Katherine of Aragon
June 22, 2014
4:40 am
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Anyanka
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How would ahve Henry reacted??

It's always bunnies.

June 22, 2014
10:33 am
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Boleyn
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I assume you are talking of the time Anne nearly died during the sweating sickness? He would have probably blamed his doctors for not curing her and lopped off a few heads to make himself feel better. After that he would have either accepted the situation, and gone back to K.O.A and done pennance to the Pope for daring to argue with him, or done as Wolsey had suggested about alleigning himself with France, and marry Princess Renee.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

June 22, 2014
5:02 pm
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Boleyn
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I think the whole point about divorce issue was not so he could marry Anne and have a son (although it was part of it) was down to the fact that he was told “No”. H8 was a man used to getting his own way and if he was told no to getting something he wanted then he would see to it that he got what he wanted come hell or high water. Half the reason I believe to why he relently persued and worn Anne down into his way of thinking was because she had told to go and do one. (NO)
If he had, had doubts about the validity of his marriage with K.O.A as early as 1512/13 I find it very difficult to believe that he didn’t act upon these doubts there and then. He was a God fearing man (at that time) after all, and surely the last thing he would want to do is insult or perjure his immortal soul by staying in a marriage which he doubted was legal in the first place. Why wait another 10 or so years before voicing these doubts????? It just made him look a bigger prat than he already was, Ok So he said it was down to the fact of the “great love” he bore for the Queen, again I have to say if he did have any love for her or any regard for her at all he would have wanted to sort out these so called doubts in head (and there was a lot of room in there for them to roll around in) in 1512/13.
It’s another WHAT IF question here, sorry folks, If he had voiced these doubts, 1512/13 and the Pope had agreed with him and annulled their marriage, who would he have married? Would he have gone for another foriegn bride or chosen a lady from English Nobility?

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

June 22, 2014
8:00 pm
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Anyanka
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Boleyn said

I assume you are talking of the time Anne nearly died during the sweating sickness? He would have probably blamed his doctors for not curing her and lopped off a few heads to make himself feel better. After that he would have either accepted the situation, and gone back to K.O.A and done pennance to the Pope for daring to argue with him, or done as Wolsey had suggested about alleigning himself with France, and marry Princess Renee.

I meant 1533-35, I had forgotten about the Sweating Sickness..

I think if Anne had died then, Henry would still have gone for a divorce but been on the lookout for Princess Renee as you say or another royal bride. After all, Henry wasn’t trying to annl his marriage for lust was he???**

**According to Henry, anyway.

It's always bunnies.

June 22, 2014
9:44 pm
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Boleyn
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Yes I’m inclined to agree with you Anyanka. The divorce was a matter of principle where H8 was concerned. If Anne had died of the sweat. He would have perhaps mourned her for a few hours. He may have even blubbed too and then gone to see Wolsey and said “Ok Anne’s dead, bit sad really but hey no matter. Now then about the marriage with Princess Renee I’ll marry her on the condition Francois gives me a large chunk of France to call my own.etc”
If that marriage and failed to come to fruation I think he would look for a bride in a country not associated at all with Spain or Portugal. He may have chosen a bride from one of the Nordic countries or maybe even Germany.
If she had died in 1533/5 I rather think the same situation would ensue. A few tears, maybe the odd sigh or 2 and then back to finding a bride

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

June 23, 2014
4:04 pm
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Sharon
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Henry was already divorced/annulled from Katherine in April or May of 1533. Even if Anne died before that I don’t think he would have ever considered going back to Katherine. He needed sons and she was incapable of giving them to him as she was beyond her childbearing years. Henry would have been sad to lose Anne, but within a few weeks of her death the feelers would have been out for a foreign princess. Who knows? Henry may have had an eye on another English lady. He did like to choose his wives by falling in love. You never know with him. He would have remarried though, and soon. That son was needed.
I can’t see Henry going back to Katherine even if Anne had died of the sweat in ’28. He had made up his mind that she was no longer his wife. Henry would still have changed the rules to marry another lady.
Do you think if Henry had picked a foreign princess to marry, the pope would have granted the divorce? What would Katherine have done? Would she have fought it as she did? Would she have had a leg to stand on if she did want to fight it? Sure brings up many questions.

June 24, 2014
6:05 am
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Boleyn
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Good question Sharon.
Being as K.O.A was so devout it’s possible that if the Pope had said that he believed their marriage was wrong, she may have gracefully retired.
There would be no point in fighting, a battle if the Pope had already decided that she was never queen in the first place.
I think K.O.A probably felt most indignant, when she found out of H8’s intention to marry Anne, and that perhaps promoted some of her stubborness towards the divorce issue, after all it wasn’t as if she was being asked to step aside for a lady of equal standing, she was being told to step aside for a commoner, and what’s more a lady in waiting. She must have felt terribly humiliated.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

March 26, 2015
10:16 pm
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Supposing Anne had died in Elizabeth’s birth or in one of her miscarriages, I don’t think there was any possibility that KoA would have come back – Henry seems to have decided at an early date that the biblical prohibition on marriage with a brother’s widow was not something the Pope could dispense with, and accordingly whatever the Pope said he would not have accepted it. By 1534 he had gone too far in his break with Rome to go back. And there remained his need for a son to secure the dynasty. It was still within living memory that the last battle of the Wars of the Roses had been fought, and the last Yorkist claimant to the throne had only died in the 1520s, so Henry needed to secure his dynasty and the peace of the realm from descent into another civil war.
As to who Henry would have married, the divorce would have been a problem had he aimed at a French or Imperial princess, although the Emperor’s qualms of conscience about his aunt might have been assuaged by finding he could form a good match for a female dependant, and doubtless the Pope’s qualms would have disappeared with his. Apart from the German states (where he would later look for Anne of Cleves) his choices might have been restricted to his own court ladies. If Anne had died in her final miscarriage then we might have had Queen Jane Seymour a bit earlier. If Anne had died at the height of her power, he might have spent some time as a widower, lamenting the loss of the woman who he would have portrayed as the perfect wife who died trying to give him a son, as he did after the death of Jane Seymour. If he had waited until KoA died (and I think it was known that she was not a well woman for some time before her death), that would leave him free to marry any Princess from anywhere, so the field is open.

March 27, 2015
3:36 pm
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Boleyn
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I agree Alexandria. I believe that before it was widely known that Henry was determined to marry Anne come hell or high water, Wolsey was trying to arrange a match between Henry and French Dauphine Renee. If Anne had died, before K.O.A it is possible that Henry would have done just that.

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

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